Official Discussion of "Three Birds and a Baby"

[Helena Kyle]

Please post your thoughts on tonights episode in this thread :)

Also, don't forget to rate this episode after it airs (the rating bit won't appear until the episode is finished). You can find the page for this episode, here :

http://www.birdsofpreyonline.com/codex/?episode=104

[Ted]

So far? Can you say idiotic? I'm talking about Helena catching the baby and then fighting with it in her arms. I mean, seriously, forget the implausibility of not being able to use two arms - doesn't she know that vigorously shaking a baby and swinging it around and then FLIPPING a few times with it would cause it harm? She totally could've snapped its neck! And then Mommy was dead anyway. She loses points as a "savior" in my book for that.

[Larry]

I guess one aspect of "Three Birds And A Baby" I found good is that Helena received a decent dose of character development and surprisingly, it came in the form a cute little tyke to literally drop into her arms to warm her cool heart. Helena is taking tiny baby steps, (no corny pun intended) to reach a point where her stand-offish attitude is becoming less of a turn-off.

The non-suspenceful plot started fizzling out rather quickly for me because I could see what was going to happen along the way and once again, Barbara and Dinah were left in the background in favor of Helena taking up two thirds of the air time. At least Dinah will be getting better coverage in Sins Of The Mother or at least I hope she will. I'm waiting for an episode where Barbara will be the main attraction. One can only dream. ;)

To tell you the truth, I really don't think Harleen Quinzel is a very formidable or for that matter a convincing villain. In fact, she doesn't even strike me as even remotely menacing, just an over-the-top trouble maker with a self-importance complex. I hope the Birds Of Prey will toss Quinzel and her sorry butt into a padded cell at Arkham Asylum really soon so that the writers can make way for a better choice of villainy.

[Larry]

The fight scene with Helena taking on the badguys with the baby in her arms was totally ridiculous, nonsensical and outrageous in the extreme. It was just another sorry excuse to show off the now unwatchable rapid kung-fu and wire-fu dramatics that is infesting action and adventure shows these days.

[Liber8]

Ok, yeah the whole fight scene with the baby was deff. over the top. The baby would have died from that, but then again if everything in the show was taken to real life extremes then Helena wouldn't be kicking ass and jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Also, the whole scene in the lab was kinda hard to swallow. You would think that a high tech lab would have Cameras all over the place, which would have given Helena and Co. away to Harley. Althought bonus points for stick fighting Barbara

The scene in the playground was kinda cool. Got to see a deeper side of Helena. Hopefully in the next couple of epps we get to see the different sides of Dina and Babs. I am liking all the charector development for Helena, but I think we need to get some sub-plots going for the other 2 as well.

The fight scene at the end was very cool. I thought it could have lasted a little longer, but everything else was great, even the music meshed well. The ending was good as well, kinda of touching, it would have been great if they didn't cut to Harley killing the Merc.......if anyone thought the baby seen was hard to believe, i thought that was ten times worse. Overall i give it about a 3.5 - 5.

[Raven Li]

I just finished seeing the eppy and I admit, it was pretty good. I missed the first few minutes though, so I never saw Helena snatch Guy. Anyways, it was so sad. I felt so heartbroken when Guy attacked Helena in the park. The relationship wasn't really that strong, I sensed.

[capedcrus8r]

Tonight's episode was....ok. But come on people....you're running out of time. This show has strong potential but you're WASTING it. Let's get some more intriguing plots and actual danger. Everything that has happened so far in this show has appeared to be minor irritations rather than real threats. Let's pump it up a few notches. And for god's sake, PLEASE let Dinah do some fighting?????:eek:

[Ted]

As usual, I go through the first run of the episode watching for things to take note of for updating the site and didn't get as much of the gist of the entire story... also for some reason the whole thing was really quiet for me even with my volume up so I totally missed the explanation for Guy's aging - some kind of neural mesh told him what to do and his body just listened?

I agree with how nice it was to see a softer side of Helena. It was a refreshing difference from the attitude and snarkiness she's pulled a lot in the last three episodes, the whole 'I am wounded and the world does not understand me'. She just seemed... I can't give it the right word because she wasn't necessarily motherly. She just really opened up and cared. I laughed aloud at the 'Did I break it?' line when she held Guy for the first time and he immediately shut up.

One kinda inconsistency - Reese walks up to Helena at the end and says he thought he'd track her down for a change and hopes he didn't startle her. Didn't he track her down at the morgue earlier and not manage to startle her then? It was one thing that he said he wasn't surprised to find her over a dead body, which was a complete repeat of what he said last week about her showing up over corpses - but to mess up within the same hour? Thumbs-down for that.

I'll be checking in and posting more through the evening. :)

[Aeryn Sun]

I loved the fight scene at the end when Helena and Guy teamed up. Could have been longer though.

I do wish Barb would get more airtime. I did like her tiny little fight scene at the lab, wish we could see more of that.

Why would Helena poke a baby with a pencil(I think it was a pencil)?

Overall, I enjoyed the ep.

[Larry]

If the show does not start to create more interesting and thrilling storylines and provide better menacing and threatening bad guys for the Birds to thwart, then I'm afraid the show will start to loose its initial spark and verve very quickly.

[Ted]

Originally posted by Aeryn Sun
Why would Helena poke a baby with a pencil(I think it was a pencil)? The same reason any normal person would poke anyone else with a pencil - it's funny to the viewers. ;)

[bigguye7]

Another predictable plot is enlivened with some nice bits of characterzation.The three leads really click when they are all together which leads me to say...please let them work together as a team!I mean how great was it to see the three of them going to the lab together instead of huntress skulking around alone.Other shows have their ensemble casts working together so why not here???

The best parts of the series so far has been the quiet scenes where the ladies play off each other,not all the fancy fight scenes!And when oh when is dina and rachel going to get some attention?Next weeks episodes looks promising but I would not be so sure.It seems the producers liked huntress most and thought she would be the most popular character on the show,you know the fonzie syndrome,which is on happy days the fonzie character took off as the most popular and all the others were just supporting fillers for him.As I have said before I love ashley scott and the character but to much even of a good thing can be to much.

As I said above the plot was predictable but was saved by the cast and a fast pace.Mia seems to be coming into her own as harley but they are going to have to start making the show stand out more,give us more subplots so we can follow along each week to see what happens.Joss Wheden creator of buffy and angel does it each week and J.J. Abrams does it with Alias so lets start that here,not just the meta of the week and thats it.

My final grade for the episode B-.

[.:Mattness:.]

Overall, I thought it was a pretty good episode. A bit of a step down from last week's in my opinion, but good nonetheless. There were flaws, naturally, what with the things you guys've already listed. I just feel like they're not doing all they can with the show. So far, pretty much anyone could have started watching any of the first four episodes without having seen any of the others, and could have understood it as well as someone who'd seen all the previous episodes. They need to have some continuing plotlines and whatnot, rather than the anthology-of-very-strange-events-that-don't-have-to-do-with-each-other. (Wow, that's a lot of hyphens.)

They really could do a ton more with the show, and I don't think they're using it to its full potential. Though someone said Harley Quinn isn't a very menacing villain, I don't think she's really supposed to be. She never was. She was Joker's assistant type figure. She didn't make the decisions. I think she's pretty much there to meddle around and make life hell for the Birds during this season, only to release a new (and most likely more villaineous) villain at or near the end of the season. We'll just have to wait and see.

Again, the episode wasn't bad, but it wasn't the best. A little bit of correcting some of the difficulties, and WB could be on to something. Not that they particularly care XD. But yeah, I can see it improving in the future.

Overall Grade: 3/5

[Larry]

How could the writers stoop so low as to use that kind of a tired-old gag and to have it done on a helpless baby? They should be ashamed of themselves.

[Silver Huntress]

I missed the first few mintues :( so I didn't she her catch the baby. I loved how Barb got a little kick ass time in, it'd be fun to see more of that.

Helena opened herself up to the baby, maybe she'll actually give Reese a name soon

[Larry]

Like you pointed out, she was the Joker's assistant but since the Joker is apparently out of sight in New Gotham at the present time, Harley is being used as a recurring villain or seems to be at this point and she will only end up being over-used like the two-dimensional, second string baddie she is.

[Ted]

Come on, let's give Harley a chance to show her dark side! We're only four episodes in - how heinous should she be? She kills ruthlessly - the mercenary - but like she said in 'Slick', she prefers to sit back and delegate. And like Barbara said, someone is trying to put the organized into New Gotham crime. Harley's been here a few months. Do you expect her to be starting the apocalypse? I know she may not have seemed all that menacing tonight, and I agree that some of her "Find. My. Baby!" lines were trying, but as .:Mattness:. said, she was always the sidekick.

[jinnyb]

your right they need to play up the subplots and make things mesh more. They set some good ones up in episode 3 but didn't follow them here .

of course next weeks episode which is about Dinah is being previewed as about the huntress .

[Larry]

And you're right, Harleen Quinzel has only been on the show for a short period of time, so her penultimate evilness will eventually surface.
However, killing ruthlessly does not make Harley out to be a truly evil criminal just yet. She's still has ways to go before she can even come close to what the Joker has done and we all know how immensely vile he was.

Yeah, given time, I can see Harley becoming more dangerous. I just hope it's sooner rather than later. :)

[Ted]

Loved this exchange :

Guy : "Why do we live inside a big clock?"
Dinah : "He has a point."
Helena : "Don't look at me, I didn't pick it. Senior superhero chooses the lair."

And it was nice to see the girls kinda understand what Alfred does - rather than just always going on assuming he's this selfess always-serving butler and without giving him credit for his services.

[Blackbird]

Hi, I'm new *waves* Well, actually, I've been lurking. Anywho, I liked tonight's eppy better than "Slick" but it was not as good as "Prey For The Hunter", imo.

I have a question....does anyone know what the song was at the end and who it's by? The song I'm refering to is the one that plays when Helena's on the swing set and Reese comes to talk to her...

Lyrics:
Won't you forgive me for my sin/maybe then you'll let me in

Thanks!

[Larry]

Yeah, Alfred may be a supporting character and he may not always get enough air time he deserves but he's shown how really important he is in the lives of the team in his brief scene with the girls in this episode.

I give that top marks anyway.

[Helena Kyle]

Originally posted by Blackbird
Hi, I'm new *waves* Well, actually, I've been lurking. Anywho, I liked tonight's eppy better than "Slick" but it was not as good as "Prey For The Hunter", imo.

I have a question....does anyone know what the song was at the end and who it's by? The song I'm refering to is the one that plays when Helena's on the swing set and Reese comes to talk to her...

Lyrics:
Won't you forgive me for my sin/maybe then you'll let me in

Thanks!

Firstly, welcome! Great to see new..er....faces ;)

You can find the song you are looking for in our episode guide :

http://www.birdsofpreyonline.com/codex/index.php?episode=104&show=music

[capedcrus8r]

I referenced Alias in a post I made in another thread under Season One. It's a call to the producers and writers.

http://www.newgotham.net/showthread.php?threadid=357&goto=newpost

[Empress Vader]

So "Elliot" became "Guy"? :)

It was obvious from the title this was going to be a light episode, you get one every once in awhile to lighten the mood. I was expecting worse from the moment I heard the title. Yeah, We've ALL seen the "abandoned baby" plotline, but it wasn't a bad episode, not the best so far, but not bad. Mia Sara, if I didn't know better I'd think she was truly a psycopath, I'm enjoying her. Helena and Reese, there scenes took a back seat this week and it was more "Birds team" focused, which is good. As much as I like the H/R games, there is such a thing as too much of something and the last couple episodes were heavily focused on this non-couple. And it was nice to see Helena finally react by not-fighting, when Guy attacked her. She rejected Dinah's needyness in the Pilot because it came on so stong. Guy came to her in the form of a baby and sort of won her over while her defenses were down, so she was more able to connect and by the time he was Dinah's age (a day or two in this case) she was already bonded with him. Nice to see something besides "I kick a$$" girl.

[Ted]

Another small comment : I liked how Dinah was able to quickly relate to and "get inside" Guy's head at the club when he was a teenager, because she is one. No phony beating-around-the-bush or even some of the "We're different, we're hunters, no one understands us, we must keep our rage in check" kinda cliched/expected diatribe from Helena. Simple teen talking to another teen and it worked, in my opinion. Especially when he defended her from the bully.

[jinnyb]

Helena should have gone with dinah, she, found him fast enough.

[capedcrus8r]

Originally posted by Oracle
Loved this exchange :

Guy : "Why do we live inside a big clock?"
Dinah : "He has a point."
Helena : "Don't look at me, I didn't pick it. Senior superhero chooses the lair."

And it was nice to see the girls kinda understand what Alfred does - rather than just always going on assuming he's this selfess always-serving butler and without giving him credit for his services.

See I disagree about this exchange. This is what I'm talking about in my http://www.newgotham.net/showthread.php?threadid=357&goto=newpost post. The fact that they call themselves superheros just detracts from their role AS superheros. Batman never saw himself as a superhero. He was "cursed to a life of nightly torture" as spoken by Dr. Chase Meridian in "Batman Forever." It is so campy when they say stuff like that. I realize this show isn't based in reality, but give it a touch of reality and it will FEEL real.

[Larry]

I guess Helena has made some strides in terms of trying to be less brash and impulsive and allowing some vulnerability to put a few cracks in her tough-girl, kick-ass image.

[Blackbird]

Thanks! I was looking around here for the music section and I found the promo music, but I was like "Where's the epsiode music?" Guess I didn't look hard enough ;)

[Helena Kyle]

Originally posted by Blackbird
Thanks! I was looking around here for the music section and I found the promo music, but I was like "Where's the epsiode music?" Guess I didn't look hard enough ;)

Thank you for posting actually, I have edited the promo section to add a little piece saying where people can get episode music from as I meant to do a while back! Glad you found it :)

[LisaM]

I liked it...The best part of the episode was Barbara fighting from her wheelchair. It's about time. Dinah finally got to use her powers but she definitely needs some fighting skills.

For me, this show is about the developing relationships between the 3 women who have banded together to fight evil. The writers need to have more scenes like the one in the lab where all 3 women worked together - and fewer scenes of Huntress saving the day by herself.

I liked the witty (or attempted witty) banter between the women. I also liked the comment that Helena made to Alfred that, when she was a kid, Barbara never gave up on her. I want to see more of Helena and Dinah interacting and Barbara leading the team and mentoring Dinah. At least we were spared scenes of Oracle yelling "Huntress, Huntress" into Helena's earpiece.

Harley Quinn had some good lines which cracked me up.

I think that next week's episode looks good.

[jinnyb]

[. I want to see more of Helena and Dinah interacting and Barbara leading the team and mentoring Dinah.

I think that next week's episode looks good. [/B][/QUOTE]


Ditto
:)

[Blackbird]

Originally posted by Helena Kyle
Thank you for posting actually, I have edited the promo section to add a little piece saying where people can get episode music from as I meant to do a while back! Glad you found it :)

Then I'm glad I was helpful and not the annoying kid who asks dumb questions. Everyone's chatting about the episode and I run in and go "what was this?" without adding anything to the discussion.

Since I'm here, I'll add my two cents on the episode. It was good to see Helena relate her struggles to someone who was in a similar situation. She's defrosting. Dinah's still a little too perky, imo, but she's proving herself useful.

I loved Harley's reaction to the news that Helena had won Guy over with friendship....'That's crazy' Hee.

[Watcher]

Hey Everyone!

I really enjoyed tonight's episode, it rocked. I can really see how the season is improving.

Harley Quinn - We got to see her talk more about her sweet Mr. J and plans to rule New Gotham. Her green eyes and the Joker's green hair, LOL, that was a funny quote. BUT, I enjoyed her much more in the other two episodes she appeared in than this one. It was sorta chilling to see her talk of the 'woman' who keeps ruining her plans when she sees that 'woman' in therapy sessions.

Helena - I thought it was really sweet to see how much Helena loved and related to Guy. It was funny how she at first pretended that she didnt like him and throughout the episode, she became closer with him. I think we got to see a sweeter side of Helena.

Reese - Really good to see Reese in non-detective clothing. We got to see him in regular clothes in "Slick" but this episode was different. When Reese put his hand on Helena's shoulder at the end, that was really sweet. I can see their relationship growing more and more.

Those are the things I wanted to mention. Overall, great episode, maybe one of the best this season so far, but next week may take the "best ep so far" place.

[Ted]

See, I'm a fan of the kinda campy levels of the show. I like that they're superheros who know they're superheros, who recognize what their life is. No, Batman may never have called himself a superhero, but that was a little different when he was the only one in those movies. This show recognizes that there was Batman, several Robins, Huntress, Batgirl, Black Canary, etc. They know comic books and tv shows and whatnot and know that's who they are. What would they call themselves? Vigilantes? People who operate by night? Do-gooders? Barbara to my recollection has avoided the superhero label, but Helena is full of sass and tongue-in-cheek humor and I don't think you can avoid her self-referential jabs at being a 'superhero'. I like the whole "characters in a tv show who know they're characters in a tv show" kind of humor every once in a while.

To each his/her own though. :)

[Larry]

I frankly don't see Reese and Helena getting into a close relationship as yet. It will happen along the line but it'll take a major change in Helena's behavior to get Reese to consider her in terms of a real love interest and not another woman to shoot the breeze at night with.

[giggle_box_sam]

Originally posted by Oracle
Another small comment : I liked how Dinah was able to quickly relate to and "get inside" Guy's head at the club when he was a teenager, because she is one. No phony beating-around-the-bush or even some of the "We're different, we're hunters, no one understands us, we must keep our rage in check" kinda cliched/expected diatribe from Helena. Simple teen talking to another teen and it worked, in my opinion. Especially when he defended her from the bully.

:D That has to be my favorite scene from the whole show up to date so far. It was so sweet and how he stood up for her. I definately liked the small scene of Dinah/Guy more than all of the rest of Helena/Guy. The only part of this episode where I felt Helena's pain was the part where Guy dies and where she is still holding that cupcake with the candle lit trying to keep it going as long as she can. It might have been handle a little better like her blowing it out or someone talking to her, but it was sweet nonetheless. I loved Guy's character from when he was 4 years old and on. It was the only thing that kept me watching the show and not turning it off. I seriously need episodes that aren't Huntress is being pulled apart, she has pain and thinks the world is against her, she has a hard time trusting people, she's strong and can fight...yay :rolleyes: Sorry :o if I annoy people but that's how the show gets to me...it's like the show's a fan database in itself...:(

[Empress Vader]

Originally posted by Oracle
So far? Can you say idiotic? I'm talking about Helena catching the baby and then fighting with it in her arms. I mean, seriously, forget the implausibility of not being able to use two arms - doesn't she know that vigorously shaking a baby and swinging it around and then FLIPPING a few times with it would cause it harm? She totally could've snapped its neck! And then Mommy was dead anyway. She loses points as a "savior" in my book for that.

I have to say I agree with this completly. Xena pulled the "fight while supporting a baby" trick a few times, but at least it wasn't obivous she was holding a doll baby. They should have at least had ashley scott (and her stunt double) LOOK like they were supporting the head. That baby doll's head jerked so much, it broke the realisim. The baby would not have survived it. We know you can't fight with a baby in your arms really, but if they had to do it, just a slight bit more effort there, even wrapping there My buddy doll more tightly in his blanket, would have helped.

[Larry]

Now in my view, I can really appreciate the fact that the three ladies are not in colorful costumes in the present day because I much prefer to see them looking like real people and not super heroes who jumped out from a comic book. To tell you the truth, having to watch somebodu parading in a costume meant to be seen only in comic books really doesn't appeal to me that much.

In the pilot, you can see Batman and Batgirl in flashback scenes in their respective caped outfits and that was perfectly fine by me. No problem. I liked seeing Batgirl in her costume. I just don't want to see that again anytime soon. Maybe later in the series but not right now. Maybe never, who knows.
Like I said before, I much prefer to see Barbara, Dinah and Helena not looking like superheroes in the colorful sense of the term.

In a way, the writers and producers have made the look for the show just darkly urban enough to draw people to it and the added factor of the show being based on a comic book history and mythos is another incentive to watch it.

[Larry]

Well, not to harp on the subject again and beat a dead horse but the fight scene with Helena and the baby was by far the dumbest thing I've seen to date on any action show frankly. The writers and the director reaslly didn't think it through and it looke dso fake and unrealistic.

Like I said before, the whole scene and even subsequent scenes were just another bad excuse to have more displays of that "wire-fu" nonsense that's infiltrating tv and movies nowadays. All that rapid fighting and flipping is so hard for the eye to follow. I place the blame squarely on all those cheezy Hong Kong martial arts movies for starting that craze.

[Ted]

Originally posted by giggle_box_sam
The only part of this episode where I felt Helena's pain was the part where Guy dies and where she is still holding that cupcake with the candle lit trying to keep it going as long as she can. I didn't think that was the sweetest because I thought it was over when she was at the swingset later on, but then she came back to the tower... and the candle was still sitting around on the cupcake somewhere? It never burned down? Riiiiight. The part I liked most was not even when he died, but when her pain shone through in the park - "Slow down, Guy. I can't keep up." while she touched his arm as he lay sleeping and aged more. It just was touching to me.

[Larry]

The small action sequence I enjoyed watching was in the fight scene in the lab when Oracle used her escrima prowess to defend herself. She really knew how to swing that collapsible baton around. She totally clobbered that thug.

[giggle_box_sam]

Originally posted by Oracle
I didn't think that was the sweetest because I thought it was over when she was at the swingset later on, but then she came back to the tower... and the candle was still sitting around on the cupcake somewhere? It never burned down? Riiiiight. The part I liked most was not even when he died, but when her pain shone through in the park - "Slow down, Guy. I can't keep up." while she touched his arm as he lay sleeping and aged more. It just was touching to me.

:fight: what???? lol :p just kidding around. I would never fight that hard over something as small as that. Actually, I made that comment to my dad that it was the Super Candle of the future. I also see things in the sense of what would make a awesome episode fanfic filler and I could imagine what would be said. I almost cried at the part where he was aging but I think that's more because of the writing and Riley's previous acting than Ashely's acting, no offense meant to fans of hers. Anyway, I agree laterex1, Oracle fighting with that baton was a really great scene. I'd take a few of those over all of Helena's fighting scenes any day. :smoke:

[Larry]

Hey, hey, hey, that's what I like to see, giggle_box_sam. Anything good or awesome pointed out about Barbara is great. She's definitely one of a kind, that girl is and the more people appreciate her for what she does, the better it is. I am a really huge fan of Oracle, Batgirl and Barbara Gordon.

[giggle_box_sam]

:angel: no problem with the worshipping of Dinah or Oracle any time of the week. I pretty much love Dinah, Oracle, and Detective Reese the most out of everyone in there. I'm going to check out their little forums to join the other worshippers there ;)

[Larry]

Hey, that's great. The more the merrier in the Oracle forum, I'd say. :)

[HyperGear]

The Huntress forum needs more people also :D

[birdsofpreyfan]

Hey Everyone!

This was a great episode. Maybe not as good as "Prey for the Hunter," but close.
The fight scene with the baby was very unrealistic, but it didn't take away from the episode too much. I bust out laughing when Helena was poking Guy with the pencil, and when she asked if she'd broken him when he stopped crying. :D
That was so sweet when she was singing to him. I was hoping that Barbara or Dinah would overhear her and say something about how sweet it was.
I loved Barbara fighting. She kicks a*#. I was beginning to wonder when we'd get to see a little of that fightin' spirit that made her Batgirl!
I loved how the girls worked together as a team several times during this eppy. That is the reason this show works so well and is awesome. It's not just the fighting and the struggle with good and evil, it's about these three women who are real people with real issues. They are a family, even if they never say anything about it. Helena's coming in and fighting when Barbara alerted her, Barbara's talks with Helena, Dinah's desire to help and make the girls proud, these are things that show how they care about each other.
I like the developing relationship of Reese and Helena. I think that it will be a while before they get together for real, because the writers love teasing us with angst! Plus you can't put the love interests together in the first of the season, it wouldn't work out that well. But when he put his hand on her shoulder at the end, that was really sweet.
I liked how Dinah talked with Guy. That was one of the best scenes of this episode.
It was so sad when Guy died. His wish was really touching. I just wish that they would've had Barbara and Dinah saying something, or shown a little more before Helena was at the park. It was like something was missing.
Overall, a pretty great episode. Touching, funny, good character development and interaction, and that special "je ne sais quoi" of Birds of Prey that brings me back every week. I love this show!:)
I do have a question though. Barbara said that Helena had said that she "saw a woman, but didn't see her face" at the club. How did she not recognize that it was Harley? I mean, I kow that you can just see someone in passing and not really *see* them, but a five foot tall, short, blond woman wearing bright clothes while surrounded by mercenaries in black would really stand out at a crime scene, wouldn't she? I might just be me, but I didn't get that. But, no worries on my part. I like how the hero sees the villian on a (probably) weekly basis and lets her mess with her mind, alll the while it is unbeknownst to both of them that they are actually nemeses! (Is that the plural of nemesis?- I suck at spelling!:D ) Can't wait for next weeks episode. It'll be good to get to know Dinah a little more.
Oh, and how could I have forgotten Alfred? He is the man! Such a sweethearted person. I was just waiting for him to compare Helena and Bruce. That would've been classic.

[superyen]

I found this episode mildly entertaining, but mostly because of Kick Ass Barbara.

I am puzzled as to why the lab worker wanted Guy for herself. She knew that this baby would only live 3 days. Why bother kidnapping him? Was this the best way the writers could come up for having the baby could fall into the Birds' hands? I assumed from the start that it was all a set-up for Helena to find a person in danger and save her and her baby. But it didn't really detract too much from the overall plot...

What was a bit of a stretch was Helena giving Assassin Mode Guy a pep talk after he pummeled her and seeing him turn into Sensitive Guy. I mean, it was more than just an attitude change he needed to overwrite all his circuitry. Of course, I realize that their explanation is that he was just a prototype and his pesky Free Will allowed him to choose between killing or not killing. But shouldn't the choice really have been between "killing this person or killing that person?"

[Catwoman101]

This ep. was ok. To tell you the truth I was kinda looking forward to next weeks episode instead of the three birds and a baby.

A few things:
Why didn't Alfred assist them with the baby? He like totally left them hanging. I thought that was rude of him.

This is what really bugged me....
How in the world could those guys not get a good look at Helena? They ran into her like twice! And how come that research center they were in didn't have a secruity cameras? These days I can't go into K-Mart without camera taking my picture!

One other thing, what did Dinah say to the guy who was trying to pick her up at the club? I mean after he touched her and she sensed something from him.

IMO: I thought Barbara kicking that guys a$$ was totally awesome. They should put her in more fight scenes.

[jinnyb]

dinah said "
you need to wash your mind out with soap"
give or take a word

[Ted]

Because he's a butler, not a nanny, as he said, and he's probably working pro bono as it is - you think Babs is paying him? He probably lives it up at the Manor, has free reign, bunches of cars, etc. but doesn't take a weekly wage. Those three girls have hands and arms and legs and are capable of taking care of a spare baby they pick up, so why should Alfred have to do it? It gave them a taste of what he's been doing for thirty+ years.

[Harleen Quinzel]

I like the episode; I think it may have been my favorite so far.

I wasn't a huge fan of Ashley's acting so far (never watched Dark Angel to see her act in there). Last night's episode, allowed her to show us, or me, what she can do. She is not the greatest actress around, but I think that last night she showed that she has talent. She had to be funny, loving, caring, bitchy, and "fighty" ;)

The story was not something totally new as it is a mixture of the eternal "find a baby on the doorstep" theme but at least they threw in some twists and turns.

I like that they are not having Reese and Huntress jump in a relationship fast and that she stays true to her principles.

[Dinah Lance]

Last night's episode was really good in my opinion. It was nice to see the "softer side" of Helena, some people just think she's a bitch. This eppy proved there is more to her than that, in my opinion.

I wish they could have found some way to save Guy, it was sad to see him go. :(

[Harley's Boy]

It was an OK episode. I do hope they get better. Yes, it was sad when Guy was dying and they couldn't do anything about it.

Harley was great! I loved hearing all of her scattered thoughts about this and that. She can't possibly take over the city without Mr. J's help. I do NOT like her new hair style.

Oh, yeah...belated Happy Halloween!

[Psychic Oracle]

Okay... I will say that I didn't particularly love this episode. It was good, don't get me wrong, and it had some interesting character developments for all three characters.

First, Helena and her development this episode. That was completely welcomed. I'm thrilled that Ashley got a chance to convey some emotion and development for the character!

Barbara... she got to kick some ass! I know we're only four episodes into the series, but it's nice to see that some element of Batgirl is still there. She won't just sit idly by while Huntress goes into battle.

Dinah. I like how she got into Guy's head at the club. She even got the chance to warn Barbara about the trap... a bit too late, but she's really growing into a character that I can enjoy.

Reese, the element for the relationship is there. But I haven't seen enough of him to comment yet.

Harley... she is psychotic and I love it about her character! Mia is playing her so well! I also like how she and Helena both know about the other person, just not who that other person is!

I'm still conflicted about some elements of the series, but it's brand new... there will be some kinks to work out. Every good show is like that.

[Enchantress]

I thought that this ep was okay. After Guy fought, it could be believable that he could be the Helena's son!! hehe:p :p Anyway, I have to give this ep to Harley. She was amazing. I liked when she said that she and Joker's child probably would've had her green eyes and his green hair!! Wouldn't that be a sight to see!! hehe:eek: :eek:

[Catwoman101]

In this episode Helena mentioned that she could hardly keep a housepet alive.

Does this mean that she has a pet? If she does it's probably a cat given that her mother was Catwoman.

She also referred to Guy's crying was like holding a bag of screaming cats. Or something like it.

I think this is the shows way of mentioning Catwoman. Or maybe the catwoman that lives within her.Kind of like a code. Of course I could be wrong about this. If I am I don't care I like this idea.

As I recall, Catwoman herself loved to use cat figures of speech. Things like--"Cat got your tough" or "Let's play cat and mouse, I'll be the cat and you'll be the mouse, you lose." and "Look what the cat dragged in." and "Who let the cat out of the bag?" I'd better stop before I post all of them. And believe me there are a lot. :D

Meow

[Ted]

Given how much Helena is out sweeping the city or hanging around the lair, I doubt she has a pet. I think her comment was either due to the fact that a) she had a pet that died from neglect, or b) it was a turn of a phrase because she has no time for a personal life. I don't think any of Catwoman's pets are still alive at this point in time.

[Hecate]

I think what she actually said was she couldn't keep a housePLANT alive so there's hope for her having a cat should we ever get to see where she lives. I heard her say something about "the Penthouse" which was where Bruce Wayne stayed when he was in town (and lived there instead of Wayne Manor for a couple of years). Wonder if that's where she lives though I don't see why it would be any less objectionable than Wayne Manor.

[Catwoman101]

Originally posted by Hecate
I think what she actually said was she couldn't keep a housePLANT alive so there's hope for her having a cat should we ever get to see where she lives. I heard her say something about "the Penthouse" which was where Bruce Wayne stayed when he was in town (and lived there instead of Wayne Manor for a couple of years). Wonder if that's where she lives though I don't see why it would be any less objectionable than Wayne Manor.

I just read the transcript and it said housepet. Although I remembered that she said houseplant in the show. Maybe she add lipped it in.

[Batwoman]

That fight scene was beyond disturbing. Also the poking with a pencil...what's wrong with her? I agree that Harleen isn't very formidable as a villainess. We need someone better. Oh, and I liked it when Helena said..."that's my boy"

[Hecate]

Well if it says housePET I guess that's it. Houseplant I've heard of--never housepet before-- and I would think if you're trying to explain how bad you are with living things plants are more extreme examples than animals so I just assumed that had to be what she said.

[jinnyb]

It was houseplant.
And the penthouse is the apartment under the clocktower where barbara and dinah live

[AngelQueen]

The episode wasn't the greatest I've ever seen, I'll grant you that. But it was still all right, anyway.

Helena: It was nice to get to see her do something other than kick someone's ass (though she did still do that in this episode). It gave her softer side a chance to peek out from behind the shields that Helena's built up around it.

Barbara: *grins and waves a black banner with yellow lettering that says, GOOOOO BARBARA!!!!* Oh yeah that was great! :D I absolutely loved that scene! Barbara gets to kick some butt! *jumps up and down in delight*

Dinah: I'm glad we got to see her in so many different ways here. We see her as sort of an older sister who is outraged that her baby brother spit up on her favorite outfit. Then she warns Barbara about the trap, though a little too late. Maybe that shows she's making progress. :D The scene in the club with Guy was great too!

Alfred: Glad to see him make an appearance! And I too was waiting for him to say something about Helena and Bruce!

Harley: *growls* You ole' meanie! Leave them alone! Seriously, I think Mia Sara is doing a great job with what the writers are giving her. Though I don't see Harley being able to take over New Gotham *snorts*, she is still dangerous in her own way. The very fact that she can kill someone without remorse indicates that. But, seriously, she'll never be in the Joker's league. *growls again and throws a dart at a Joker dartboard*

Guy: *cries* His end was so sad! He was great at the different stages, from baby, to little kid, to pre-teen, to teen, and then into old age. The many different actors that played him did a wonderful job in linking it all together.

The Death Scene: I was practically in tears by the end of it. Guy's wish was so heartfelt! You could see it in the way he looked up at Helena, who was obviously trying to keep from crying herself.

Huntress/Reese: It was nice the way the writers played their relationship down a little in this. You could see he was still a little wary of her, especially after Prey for the Hunter. He probably figured that he was still in trouble for what he'd said then. But the little things, like how he put his hand on Helena's shoulder in the park, were nice as well. Just little tidbits like this can usually be enough to satisfy me... at least, until the next episode! ;)

First Fight Scene: *blinks* I agree with just about everyone on what has been said, so I won't need to repeat it here.


Like I said, this episode wasn't the greatest, but it was still good. I'm definitely looking forward to next week!

AQ

[RageneoX]

Helena singing?? Damn, now I REALLY need to get this ep.


|2ageneoX

[sailordom]

While I didn't really expect too much out of this ep after seeing the trailer, I was still kind of disappointed with it. It was light, fill-in fluff, which is not what this show needs right now. It needs to hook people, and disposable entertainment isn't the way to do that.

What I liked:
Barbara kicking butt! :) There needs to be more of this. :)
Helena's character development. I really liked a lot of her interactions with Guy. The quippy, self-pitying thing really needed to be balanced out.
The hint of snarky Alfred. :) I'd love to see him become the same kind of foil for Helena that he is for Batman in the comics. While DCU Barbara could easily serve that role, the TV Oracle is just too...nice for it.
The scenes with Barbara, Dinah, and Helena together. What little interaction there is between the three is always one of the highlights of an episode.

What I didn't like:
For an action show, this episode had some pretty bad action scenes. I swear, this show looks like a cheesy syndication show during most of its action scenes. Why on earth does wire work in American productions (especially TV) look so bad? The fight sequences always look so fake and forced--this looks like the crap in the CHARLIE'S ANGELS movie that tried to pass as wire work. If you want to borrow from Hong Kong action movies, the least you can do is try to do it right.
The generic-ness of it all. This plot felt like it belonged for later in the season--it was fill. Not exactly the kind of story that will establish a show as "must-see."

I think the biggest problem with this show is that it doesn't know what it's about. Is the show supposed to be about Helena finding her way in the world? Is it supposed to be about her growing into an unstoppable crimefighter? Is it supposed to be about Helena, Barbara, and Dinah becoming a family? Is it supposed to just be three chicks in leather jumping around? All of the episodes have so far seemed to meander about; it's one thing to have self-containted episodes instead of story arcs (see SMALLVILLE), but it's quite another to have no discernible direction. There's just no underlying theme to the show. Even CHARMED is about more than just the eye candy.

Personally, I think the show works best when it focuses on the relationships between the three main characters. There's a lot of potential for this show to become a character-driven show. Right now, there's really no reason for the average viewer to invest him/herself into the characters since none of them have really been developed. What we do see is tantalizing and keeps me wishing for more. Given the weakness of the plots, this could be the way to tie the show together. Think "classic" BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER (ie, season two)--it didn't matter that the plots always had holes you could fly a B-2 bomber through because the characterizations always gave the show resonance.

If that's not the direction the show wants to go in, it can also still be very plot-driven--but the plots have to be good. There's tons of potential for this show to take the best elements of crime shows and mix it up with the superhero theme. That's what the current Batman comics (not to mention the incredible POWERS) have been doing for the last couple of years now, and they've been very successful with the formula. It would mean smartening up the heroines quite a bit and making them competent (I have a hard time taking them seriously as crimefighters), but that could only enhance the show. The villians would also have to be smartened up and developed into something deeper than a generic Monster-of-the-Week, but it could definitely work.

I really, really want to love this show. It's fine if the producers want to leave it as fluff entertainment--but make it fluff entertainment where I can't wait to see what happens next. This show has so much potential and it's just killing me to see it settle for generic action-adventure that you could find on any syndicated show.

Lita

[LisaM]

Great post, Lita. I totally agree with everything you wrote. My favorite scenes are the ones where there is development in the relationship between two or more of the characters. Even the scene in the car where Helena was snarking at Barbara about her driving was fine. I liked the scenes in Prey for the Hunter where Barbara was reminding Dinah about it being a school night. More defined characterization and deepening relationships between the characters is what this show needs. I would much prefer to see those scenes than another one of Huntress fighting.

Having said that, my favorite scene in the series to date was Barbara fighting from her wheelchair.

[RageneoX]

Hey all,

I just saw the episode (I know, I'm a bit late...I don't have WB...so I downloaded it...sue me!). Contrary to popular belief that this wasn't too good of a show, I thought it was the best of the three. Let's see, where to start...the pro's about the show I thought was:

a) Alfred's airtime. He was always an integral part of Batman so it's good to see him being all smug and witty again.

b) Development of Helena's compassion for people. It was finally good to see Helena put aside her badass persona and feel...well, I guess love would be a ballpark term, for another person. It was really impressive and slightly moving to see her care for Guy and have so much faith in him to live...and then lose it because of his engineered fate. Tré sad people.

c) Advancement of a Harleen/Huntress showdown. The day will come when they both realize that they were under each others noses the whole time. I hope that they do kind of a Buffy-style Big Bad kind of thing...where theres one really hard to beat bad guy in each season. That would be interesting to see.

d) Advancement of a Reese/Huntress relationship. Although the episode wasn't centered around this concept as per usual, their interaction in this ep was enough to kind of 'mend' any damaged bonds between the two. Originally, I had seen them as a good couple but after this episode, it's kind of wierd to picture that. I haven't exactly pinpointed a reason for this yet but it just doesn't seem like it works. Nonetheless, a good clean-up from last episode. It's still amusing to see Huntress giving Reese the scare.


There wasn't too much I didn't like about the episode but just a few tiny things:

a) The meta-human thing. Alright, this goes for all the episodes (especially Prey for the Hunter) but I'll mention in here. The meta-human thing promotes a kind of "Dark Angel" feel. It feels as though the show might be building up to some kind of gathering of metas to start some sort of rebellion until the world accepts their kind. I'm probably off but you never know.

b) Fight scenes. These things are hard because most of the actors and actresses in shows where theres fighting have little combat skills and need to rely of a crash course to have SOME technique down. As Lita said, the fight scene seemed forced and really mechanical...as do most shows. Of course, if I wanted to see some high quality fighting, I'd probably watch a Jet Li movie.

All in all though, it was an EXCELLENT show. So far, It's way better than Dark Angel...the actings better, the chicks are hotter, the plot's juicy. And if DA could get 2 seasons, I don't see why BoP can't (or even more). Granted, its no Buffy or Nikita, but it's captivating enough to generate a handsome audience. Only time will decide its fate I guess.

|2ageneoX

[EKATZ]

We may still read the official description and see the pictures over at http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Episode/0,8201,||1126,00.html.

[Frostbite]

Who the fuck cares, newbie? Stop spamming.