Did Barbara screw up with Helena?

[Ted]

I've been thinking about this since the pilot episode and Slick, given the character's dialogue. In 1.02, Barbara said that it is their legacy as crimefighters and heros is to take in people like them, and train and mentor them. "Never turn away those with a hunger to become what we are." This said, Dr. Quinzel questioned why Barbara took in and took care of Helena - for Helena, or herself. I'm starting to wonder the same thing.

Here's this fourteen- or sixteen-year-old girl, whose mother has just been killed and doesn't have anyone in the world. Naturally Barbara is there as a friend and cares about her, though she's very generous for someone who has enough troubles in her own life without even adding the fact she's just been shot and paralyzed and must relearn her own crimefighting life. There's no way anyone can convince me Helena has her father's sense of justice as the promo trailers and press material says she has (the whole 'daughter of a crimefighter and a criminal, father's passion for justice and mother's catlike agility' kinda stuff), because being raised solely by her mother would not give her any of her father's traits other than physical. Morality is not something you are born with, it is learned and instilled upon you by the people who raise you. So I can't go along with the idea that part of Helena yearns to be like Batman and save lives and that this drove her to be a superhero. So what was Helena's driving motivation so many years ago? The most likely answer is vengeance - she wanted revenge on the man who killed her mother. What in the world would possess Barbara to train Helena in the ways of fighting crime? Because Helena had the hunger to become like her? I doubt Helena as much had the desire to save the innocent as she did to simply kick some ass and get back at the Joker for having her mom murdered - and I think that's an awful reason to choose a profession or life-altering path, out of vengeance, and Barbara, as a teacher of young men and women, should have seen that this was not the best choice. I don't think teaching any teens to be superheros is that wise a move, as she is doing with Dinah and no doubt did with Helena, because it's such an awkward and crucial turning point in their lives when there is a lot of other things going on within them (physically and mentally), and the growing and changing and stress don't make for the right time to choose to be a hero - especially with all they have to be exposed to, the forced loss of innocence. I think they should be made to wait until they are 18 or 20 before they have a choice of training and following her path or not, but Barbara should not let herself be forced into training kids to fight for her. And yeah, I said for her because given how unwise I think it was to let Helena become a hero for vengeful reasons, I think what Harley said is true - humans are essentially selfish creatures no matter how we hide it. Barbara may have wanted to help Helena, but her motivations are not so beneath-the-surface and it seems she wanted a companion and even more someone she could almost "use" in that she molded Helena into what she used to be so Helena could do the walking and running and fighting for her.

Now, one could argue that Helena does in fact want to be a hero, and at some point along the way she just accepted her 'fate', but I still think Barbara kinda screwed up in this situation. The making of Helena into the Huntress was probably done for the wrong reasons, and I don't agree with it. As Helena herself said, she was changed into "someone [she] maybe wasn't meant to be," meaning there could have been another path and life for her.

What do you guys think? Did Barbara have noble intentions? Was it right for her to turn Helena into a crimefighter as well? And do you think they'll ever tap into any resentment on Helena's part or guilt on Barbara's part for future episodes, perhaps ones where they have a confrontation about what they're doing? And did Helena have mixed feelings about letting Dinah into the group because she saw another young, innocent girl with no home like herself being exposed to a world she just wasn't meant to be in yet?

[jinnyb]

not to other think it :)

At sixteen dinah and helena have a lot of their own will formed.
we don't know how things went with helena those first few years

But with Dinah I think Barabara sees a young scared girl with power she doesn't understand and no one to guide her. (watch her face at the end of slick)
Barbara sets out that she will go to school, and she doesn't seem to be moving very fast with the training.
I think the next episode with her mother is want is going to show that dinah has to learn how to deal with her gifts and the bridges burned by her past.
It is in these teen years that one needs mentors and family and barabara can give that to dinah, and dinah in turn to her just as she and helena leaned on each other so many years ago. (listen to harley in slick as she tries to twist this in helena's mind)
helena isn't barbra, they do not see eye to eye on everything just as we donot always mirror our parents values, but we do carry then in us and I think helena does.

[BoPRobinII]

Oracle, you condemned the need for vengeance as a poor excuse to fight crime, and yet that need for vengeance is, at its core, the major reason that Bruce Wayne became Batman in the first place (that and an intense need to alleviate the unnecessary guilt he felt over being unable to stop his parents' deaths). I believe that Barbara's line in "Slick" originated more from her views on why she fights crime rather than on anything she learned from Bruce. As for Helena's motives, she is more like her father than anyone realizes, least of all herself. Let's take a look at the similarities between Bruce and Helena, in terms of personality:

- Both Bruce and Helena possess a strong sense of justice (whether or not Helena is aware that she possesses this sense of justice is another matter entirely)
- Both were, either consciously or subconsciously, driven to fight crime because of tragedies in their lives (assuming that Oracle's theory about Helena initially embarking on her career as the Huntress out of a need to avenge her mother's death)
- Both have evolved beyond their initial motives

I believe that Helena's attitude towards fighting crime is nothing more than an act perpetrated to confound Barbara. Helena was forced by circumstances beyond her control to grow up fast (just as Bruce was), and I think that the way she interacts with Barbara [both in and out of costume] is a testament to that fact.

[Ted]

Yeah, I knew it was Batman's reasoning for his life of crimefighting, the need for avenging the deaths of his parents - and look where it led him. He kept a secret idenity, an "agressive hobby", for most of his life. How many friends could he trust or let in to his life and real occupation? He lost the woman he loved, nearly lost his young protege Barbara, may have lost one of his Robin proteges, and never had a relationship with his daughter. He did a great deal of good, but he lost a lot and lived a very solitary life (going more on the Batman movies and sense of character from the show, as this isn't the comics exactly). Helena's attitude towards her job may seem to be a front to irritate Barbara, but she also seems to have genuine problems with it - hence her visits to Harleen continuing. They can do great things, but they also sacrifice a lot of their personal happiness, and Helena herself realizes she may have led a different path in her life, as she said to Harley in one of their sessions in the pilot. My condemnation of what occurred is that Barbara helped a young girl into this lonely life of solitude, secrecy and sacrifice that she may not have necessarily wanted to fully embrace or get into. She was driven by vengeance, and while I get this also drove Bruce, this motivation, in my opinion, is misguided. They always say to sleep on things, or give a second thought. Sometimes acting in the heat of the moment is good, before you lose your passion for what you're doing - but in this case, I think the burning need to get revenge led Helena into a complete life-altering decision that she wasn't fully able to make with the clear head and maturity that is needed given her age/need for vengeance. I doubt she realized how different her life would be and all she was giving up at sixteen to become the Huntress, and Barbara helped her into this role. That's where I think she may have dropped the ball.

[jinnyb]

What would have Helena become with out Barbra
Maybe she was able to focus the teenagers anger into something with purpose, where as with out her she might have drifted down a darker path

[Ted]

I'm not saying she should've had a life without Barbara, because she could very well have turned down the dark path her mother led. But there is such a thing as taking in a homeless teen and sending them to school without enabling them to become a vigilante. That's the judgment of Barbara's I am questioning.

I'm trying to look at the layers of the characters here as well as their history, instead of a simplified "Helena wanted to be a hero. Barbara taught her." that we're being spoon-fed. Maybe I'm looking too deep.

[jinnyb]

did helena want to be? the unaired pilot has a great scene between the two.
But if she did, she would have found away, maybe barbara though it better to guide her, then let her teach herself.

actually for all we know they didn't start the huntress/ oracle thing for a few years, after they both had time to heal a little

[trolleyperson]

I'm of the mindset that Barbara didn't start training Helena as soon as Helena moved in with her. I think Helena was probably a bit of a handful when she first moved in with Barbara, angry and bitter and Barbara was most certinaly dealing with her own issues at the time (having to learn how to get around and function in a wheelchair). The first couple of years were probably spent just trying to deal. In "Three Birds and a Baby" when Helena's taking to Alfred she makes that comment that "Barbara never gave up on her" which to me says she was probably acting out a whole lot.

I think Barbara probably saw Helena's anger and aggression moving towards a dark place and started to train her to try and funnel her abilities and feelings towards something positive (probably when Helena was about 18 or so).

That being said, there are obviously issues with Barbara trying to mold Helena into something she's not (or isn't even sure she wants to be). Evidenced in Helena's constant whinning about how she wants to be normal. Barbara just doesn't seem to get that not everybody is inately altrusic with zen like attitudes about self-sacrifice and the greater good. I think Barbara sees being a do-gooder (if you have the skills or the drive to acquire them) as being something logical, the one sacrificing for the many, and seems convinced that Helena will see this sooner or later.

Helena seems to be in it more for the clothes and the ass-kicking/revenge aspects. Like she'd be perfectly happy, clubbing or hanging out at coffee shops most nights, but when she's feels like venting she wouldn't mind kicking some bad guys ass. And you can see this not only through Helena's whinning but through her actions. Like she's a pretty crappy superhero as far as like bedside manners go. First episode, she rescues Dinah, then leaves her in the same, deserted alleyway where she could possibly be attacked again because the ass kicking is over. In "Slick" she doesn't want to get the lung tissue sample cause it's a Friday night. In "Prey for the Hunter" she insults the person she just saved ("I can't find anyone decent to save" what the ... ? That's nice), then doesn't want to form a plan or do anything that would really require effort, she just wants to kick Morton's ass. And in "Three Birds and a baby" she sees a woman surrounded by commando people, but can't be bothered to maybe move a couple steps to the side to get a better look (she couldn't spare half a second to do her swooshing thing?)

Half the time I get the impression Helena only listens to Barbara to shut her up. Like the hundreth time my mom tells me to clean my room, I'm all "*huge sigh* Okay, fine. Whatever." That's like Helena's approach to crimefighting.

So, did Barbara screw up with Helena. Well, yes and no. I don't think she screwed up by teaching her how to fight, and have some self control (I mean, I get the feeling that the speech Helena gave Guy in the park about power and responsibility going hand and hand, and wanting to hurt people but controlling yourself, was probably the result of MANY speeches from Barbara. So Oracle done good in that sense). But she may very well be screwing up by having too high an expectation of what/how Helena should be fighting. I mean, there's a serious 'living vicariously' vibe which isn't so cool. Like in the unaired pilot when Helena's whinning about not wanting to fight, Barbara says to her "you can leave, maybe for a month, for a year ... but you'll come back. It's who you are" -or something like that at least - I couldn't help but wonder if that was true. It's certinaly true of Barbara, but of Helena? Would Helena really would come back? A good test of a hero I think is to see what they would do if left to their own devices (like Barbara becoming Oracle, and Dick moving on to Bludhaven as Nightwing etc.) and Helena I think would be a very happy part-time hero, but stays because of Barbara.

It seems more like Barbara is currently screwing up with Helena, than anything, by not letting her decide what kind of hero (or anti-hero) she wants to be, but by trying to mold her into the type of hero she [Barbara] wants her to be.

Man, this turned out to be a long winded post!

Anway, the relationship between those two is certainly interested, and more than a little screwed up, and seeing it evolve (or devolve -at least for a while) should be interesting.

[jinnyb]

isn't this true of most parents. That they have troble letting their kids become who they are on their own. Is it really messing up or just human nature.

Helena has a deep respect of barbara weather she shows it or not. And I think barbara is a ware she isn't perfect wheather she shows it or not.

she is older and wiser now, and dinah should benifit from her experience. Sibling born several years apart often grow up in different sort of households

[giggle_box_sam]

wow this is intense. I can't wait to see how the show deals with this. they definately need it to connect with the characters on a more personal ground.

I do think Barbara saw Helena as someone who had a battle raging in them, because her mom Catwoman had to have taught her a lot of principals and morals because Batman taught her! I believe Barbara didn't want Helena to do something she'd regret with the powers she didn't understand.

So, in all, I don't think Barbara screwed up because even though Helena feels she should have had a different life, there was probably little Barbara could do.

Helena is Batman and Catwoman's daughter so if villains who wanted revenge came after the two and with Barbara in her condition and Helena untrained, would they have survived so long?

I'd like to believe that although some selfishness motivated her to want to keep Helena out of a reminder of Batman, she still knew the risks and that she couldn't send Helena away without regreting it for a really long time.

Barbara's confidence probably was also killed when she'd gotten shot and she wanted to feel that if she failed Helena in any way, then Helena still would have a chance to survive.

Plus, all super heros should have psychiatrists ;) just not the evil ones...to help them deal with their lives

[Catwoman101]

Hold the phone......I have something to say on this topic.

1. Barbara and Helena have a few things in common. Selina and Barbara were attacked by the same person---Joker. And Batman was both in their lives. He was there physically for Barbara and biologically there for Helena.

2. If Barbara didn't take in Helena then chances were that she would of probably gone after the Joker herself. And since she didn't know about her metahuman powers at the time she would of gotten herself killed.

3. Helena has no intention of being anything like her father. In fact I think she's more like her mother. We've seen it the show. Barbara is always reminding her that they don't kill! Which means that Helena has the drive to kill. Although I must admit Catwoman was a thief not a killer so I don't know where Helena gets her killing feeling from. I'm guessing it comes from her anger. The is point is Helena gets sick and tired of having to hear about how great Batman was from Barbara. As far as she is certained she could care less about him.

4. When Barbara took Helena in she didn't do it out of the kindness of her heart. Well maybe that was part of it. The truth, as I see it, is that Barbara knew who Helena was. And she probably didn't know if she'd be raising a future "Catwoman." At the same time Barbara also realized that NGC had not only lost Batman but Batgirl as well. So when she took Helena in she saw an opportunity for her to be a different kind of superhero, and at the same time replaceing the lost heroes with Helena. We all know that Barbara misses being batgirl, but with Helena she could pass on everything she knows on to her. In a sense Batgirl still lives on in Helena. I think Barbara feels guilty for not being able to protect NGC anymore. Does this make sense?

5. This has to do with Joker. Who captured Joker after he killed Selina and shot Barbara? Did Batman catch him before he left? Or did Helena do it with Barbara's help? This has always puzzled me.

6. One more thing....How many hear think that Selina Kyle would approve that her daughter is following in the steps of her father (whom she never knew.) instead of following in her steps? If Selina was alive there is no way I would ever believe that she would be ok with the fact that Helena is a crimefighter. Especially since Selina was a villian.

[Hecate]

Selina has reformed and worked for good numerous times in the different incarnations of Catwoman so I can't see her having that much of a problem with what her daughter is doing--especially considering who her father was and what she felt for him. She moves from villianess (a thrill and profit seeking masterthief-- fun and business-- evil in a selfish way maybe but not malevolently wanting to harm) to in between wild card character who sometimes works with the heroic types. It's not so much she's on the total opposite side as Batman--the dark side of the force--but at a different place in a spectrum of those that put themselves outside the normal rules and laws which Batman as a vigilante does, too. She was always just "this close" to switching sides, not someone who would be permanently "bad."
Though thinking about this some more perhaps she would not be pleased at all if she kept Helena hidden from her father because of the dangerous hobby he wouldn't give up. And if she was so opposed to crime-fighting I can't imagine her wanting her daughter become a thief which is a pretty self-destructive and dangerous life in itself. As I remember in the pilot she kept all knowledge of her past from Helena who didn't learn anything until after her mother was dead.
This topic does beg a lot of questions though what Helena's motivations are; who trained her to at least handle her abilities--surely her mother somewhat unless they manifested themselves later. It's hard to get a peg on some things about Helena's character especially things she said in the pilot -- she comes off as reluctant and resentful as a crime-fighter. Are we to take this
at face value--that she's just working off violent, "hunter" tendencies--or is there more to it than that? It still hasn't been clearly established. They made a point of saying Helena was always difficult during the anniversary of her mother's death so I'm not sure how a lot of her comments are to be taken. Was she just being herself or was she overwrought?

[BoPRobinII]

As I've already said, Helena does posssess her father's sense of justice, whether she realizes it or not. As to how Selena would feel about her daughter fighting crime, I got the impression that she hid all details about Helena's father and her criminal past mainly so that her daughter could grow up and have a normal life, so I think she'd be disappointed that all of her attempts to give Helena a normal life ultimately failed. Back to the subject of whether or not Barbara was wrong to steer Helena into a life of fighting crime. I believe that, for all of her complaining, Helena does enjoy what she's doing, and is subconsciously glad that Barbara steered her in that direction (even if she won't say it). Helena's interaction with Barbara reminds me of the interaction between a teenager and a parent.

[Ted]

I don't think you can say Helena possesses her father's sense of justice. He had no part in her upbringing, and it's not a genetic quality you can pass on. If she has a sense of justice, that's one thing - but do we say that all cops and firefighters and laywers and doctors who fight to help good people have Batman's sense of justice too? Whatever she has was most likely impressed upon her by Barbara, so it may be similar to what Bruce taught Batgirl, but I disagree in saying that Helena has her father's morals/justice/other intangible qualities.

I also disagree on Helena subconsciously being glad about fighting crime. Then again, I don't think Batman was glad to be a crimefighter either. Given his motivations (revenge for his parents, and on people like the man who killed them, etc) and dark drive to be a hero, I think it was something he was compelled to do but not something he embraced like Barbara and Dinah have. They are a different sort of hero - look forward to the life, accept who you are, train your hardest, be a superhero. Helena and Bruce seem to have their own compulsion to do what they do, but I don't think they are glad to be superheros.

[jinnyb]

"As the leader of the "Birds of Prey," Barbara has gone from being Batman's protégé to the leader of a new generation of crime fighters who are determined to carry on his legacy. To her own surprise, Barbara finds that the responsibility of family - even a self-made family like these three amazing women - is ultimately just as important as any mission to save the world"


I think this is an impoirtant part of barbara and I hope the wb doesn't forget it.

helena is like other heroines of this tv genre, and while she might not always like it she has a great gift, and once she started useing it for good, it was hard to justify stopping.

both woman both truly love and respect each other.
I don't think screwing up is really it, they have both made mistakes, like and mother/daughter, and they both grow with time


not as I said to over think it :)

[jinnyb]

PS I don't know much about batman lore- though that might be to my advantage here for I can enjoy the show for what it is,
but in the pilot helena says she has know barbara since she was a kid.
but bruce wayne didn't know serena had had his child, and cat woman was an enemy
how did she(cat woman) and barbara know each other.
.

[Catwoman101]

Originally posted by jinnyb
PS I don't know much about batman lore- though that might be to my advantage here for I can enjoy the show for what it is,
but in the pilot helena says she has know barbara since she was a kid.
but bruce wayne didn't know serena had had his child, and cat woman was an enemy
how did she(cat woman) and barbara know each other.
.

My guess is since Catwoman was a thief and Batgirl was a crimefighter there paths were bound to cross at some point. Just like catwoman and Batman paths had crossed. Even if Selina had retired her cat suit and criminal ways (which I seriously doubt that,) Barbara would still know who Selina is.

Many of you have mentioned that Selina had given up being a criminal after she had had Helena. Where in the world did you ever get that idea?
Selina Kyle was the greatest theif in Gotham, and I don't think that she would give that up just because she became a mother. She might change the her methods of doing things but she would never give it up. Once a theif always a theif. The way I see it she can't stop being a theif, just like Barbara can't stop being a crimefighter---IT'S WHO SHE IS! Selina couldn't give Helena a normal life even she wanted to because she, in a sense, has forgotten what "normal" is.
Catwoman has enemies, that's a fact, enemies come back to haunt her, Joker did. For Selina to give up being Catwoman would mean for her to give up on everything that was part of that life as a criminal, and that's almost impossible to do. Now I could go along with Selina not getting involved in serious and dangerous situations for Helena's sake. However Helena would still be in danger because of the people her mother encountered as Catwoman. So in sense Selina would of always have to protect her daughter, and she can't do that without being Catwoman!

[Hecate]

In the older comic book series on which this Huntress character is based Catwoman not only reformed and fought alongside Batman but actually married Bruce/Batman before she had a baby. On the show so far at least it was made clear in the pilot that Helena had no idea about who her mother had been before. Selena would have been a lousy mother and extremely unsympathetic character to have continued that kind of life while she was raising her child and it would make little sense considering her deciding to keep Batman in the dark because of his dangerous work that he wouldn't give up. I can't see her continuing to steal and though she may have kept up her Catwoman fighting abilities I don't see how continuing to be Catwoman as thief would have protected Helena--quite the opposite. Any such situation is likely to turn dangerous and besides what other sort of situation would Catwoman bother to get involved in anyway if there's no challenge.
Being a thief is not THE unchanging and essential part of Catwoman's character at all--in every incarnation animation, movie, TV, and countless comic book versions she is has always worked both sides of the law with the idea that she will eventually "come around" underlying it all. That is not Who She Is on the par of a heroic mission like Batman or Barbara's but a means to an end -- it's more her doing what she wants and defining herself on her own terms. She would never have been "Batman's One True Love" or inspired all that grief if she had never moved beyond that. And though Barbara may not have known if Helena was Batman's daughter she was in contact with Selina and Helena while H was growing up and I doubt she would have been friendly if she suspected anything criminal was going on or let Helena stay with her.
As to her enemies -- she was killed not for herself but for her connection with Batman, to hurt him though it might be an interesting twist somewhere down the line---if there is a line-- if maybe it was an old enemy of hers instead with no connection to the Joker.

[Catwoman101]

How do you know that Selena didn't tell bruce about Helena because he was Batman and he didn't want to give up his crimefighting hobby? There could of been some other reason of why she kept him in the dark about Helena.

[Hecate]

All I know is that Helena told Harley that she never learned who her father was--Bruce Wayne the billionaire-- until after her mother died and that he never knew he had a child. She said her mother kept her from her father because she wanted to protect her because of his "aggressive hobbies."

[Catwoman101]

Originally posted by Hecate
All I know is that Helena told Harley that she never learned who her father was--Bruce Wayne the billionaire-- until after her mother died and that he never knew he had a child. She said her mother kept her from her father because she wanted to protect her because of his "aggressive hobbies."

With this said the first thing she does is become just like her father. When she said that she said it with some resentment towards Bruce. In other words she became the person her mother was trying to avoid her of becoming. Now to me that doesn't make any sense. I think Barbara told her everything about her mother her father and about being a superhero. I just find it strange that selena would keep Helena father a secret just because he was Batman. If anything Catwoman had more aggressive hobbies than Batman.

What I really want to know is what Barbara felt about Catwoman. More importantly I want to know how Helena felt about her mother after she discovered she was catwoman? Given to the situation I don't think this is some she would discuss with Harley.

[Ted]

Straight from the unaired pilot :

Female Reporter: Businesswoman once accused of leading a double life as a jewel thief known as Catwoman.

This was a newscast that played in the 'teaser', that Barbara listened to on the tv while in the shower, then heard Catwoman was dead, went to phone Helena, the doorbell rang - etc. They cut it up (and ruined it in my opinion) with different footage and an Alfred voice-over.

Apparently Catwoman was Catwoman no more. Knowing how to fight still doesn't mean she wore the costume or kept on stealing.

[Catwoman101]

what are you saying? That Helena knew her mother was catwoman?
If the newsreporter knew that Selena was Catwoman then Hellena had to have known as well, right?
I just thought of something....
Did Selena know that Helena was a metahuman? Did she know that she was a metahuman?
I was thinking .... if selena knew that Helena was a metahuman she could of made helena her partner in crime. That would of been cool.
About the teaser, I never saw it. Like you said they took that part out in the first episdoe.

[jinnyb]

In the unaired pilot, helena and barbara were a little too tense, but they had a couple of good conversations and ideas that , the writers should rework for future stories.
if anything it might end this mask argument :)

[Kea]

Here's my questions.
Do you think Barbara would still have trained Helena if she was not a meta human?

Also is it possible that Selena left the city after she found out she was pregnant and maybe went somewhere else or another country. Then years later came back and bumped into Barbara and that's why Helena knew Barbara since she was little?

How do you think Barbara and Helena found out Bruce was the father? Selena's Will? What? I don't see Selena telling Barbara the story.

Do you think Selena knew that Helena was meta human or not?

You see this show makes you think! ;)

[jinnyb]

I want to say alfred, but bruce didn't know.
but would that make a difference.

After her death they probably went through her papers or something.

If helena wasn't meta-human would she be helena.

[tvfanatic]

I'm willing to guess that Selina did leave the counrty when she found out she was pregnant. If you look at the trading cards on the WB it says Helena was born in Paris.

[HyperGear]

If Selena did leave the country she probably wanted Helena to grow up in a place that doesn't have the Gotham City atmosphere of violence and corruption.

But why did they return back to Gotham?

[Catwoman101]

Originally posted by HyperGear
If Selena did leave the country she probably wanted Helena to grow up in a place that doesn't have the Gotham City atmosphere of violence and corruption.

But why did they return back to Gotham?

Because her father is in Gotham. I'm thinking Selina wanted to tell Helena who her father was or at least meet him but she died before she could get the chance. This could also be a possiblity.

How do we know that Selina wasn't in France because she was "working." She could of been planning on stealing something big in France.

I still want to know what she did with all of stolen loot?

[AJ2002]

I don't think Selina was in Paris to steal anything at all. I think she was in Paris, to hide the fact that she was pregnant. She didn't want Bruce to know at all.

She knew that Bruce would've found out quite easily. I also think Selina had it where, Bruce didn't know where she was for a while. She knew that he was Batman, and would be smart enough to figure out where she was.

I just think that Selina was trying to protect Helina from that sort of life. She probably decided to wait until Helena was old enough, before she told Bruce the truth.

Besides, I really think that Selina gave up on the Catwoman gig, and stop stealing all together. She had a daughter to worry about, and I am sure she wanted to be the best mother, possible. People can change, and I am sure that Selina did.

Remember, I think that its safe to say that Selina knew that Bruce Wayne was Batman. She could've exposed him to every other criminal in New Gotham, but she didn't, because she was in love with him.