Official Discussion of "Primal Scream"

[Helena Kyle]

Please post your thoughts on tonights episode in this thread :D

Also, don't forget to rate this episode after it airs (the rating bit won't appear until the episode is finished). You can find the page for this episode, here :

http://www.birdsofpreyonline.com/codex/?episode=106

If you have any bloopers/trivia or other information for the episode guide please send to bloopers@birdsofpreyonline.com. Thanks!

[brina]

This episode was good.
Wow, could you feel the sexual tension between Huntress and Reese in the first scene. ;)
Huntress certainly seemed to be enjoying being bad.
I can't believe that she hit Reese. He is too cute to hit. :tear:
Harley behind the gang, should have guessed it. She is just evil.:fume:
Oh my gosh,:eek: if Reese would have been in that van he would be gone, lucky for him he took a few more seconds to think about Huntress instead of going to the van with his partner.
Huntress almost cried when she found out about the van, she was really worried about Reese.
I cannot believe he gave her back the ring. She looked so sad.:(
Dinah can kick some butt, would have never expected it.
"We may be just learning to work together, but like it or not we're already partners." I loved this line. Huntress feels a connection with Reese.
"I don't play well with others." Super hero moto anyone. JK
Harley-"But why worry about other people, you'll always have me." Oh my gosh, it's like having the devil for your counselor, she just draws Helena in and messes with her head. The woman seriously creeps me out, she is so evil, but seems so sweet and nice. Really scary.
What is up with the preview for next week. I can't wait...next week get here already.

[Neptune's Rose]

I don't know about everyone else but I thought tonight's episode kicked ass!! The show is really taking off. I'm so happy that Barbara got some sweet loving in this episode.

[crazy_pete]

Just saw it(most of it) and it was excellent(as they all are). If only The Huntress only knew who her shrink was. WOW!!

[Neptune's Rose]

I think you're right. The dynamic between Helena and Harley is comforting and sick at the same time :eek:

[userlordj]

This was definately one of the best episodes i've seen. I'm suprised, actually - the promo didn't look so good. Good fights, excellent character development, and a VERY good plot will keep me hooked on 'birds of prey', and this ep. delivered. Good job.

[KlaraGirl]

I thought that this was one amazing episode. I think that the writers are finally starting to give depth to the characters. I also loved the cloaked the Jason Todd reference.

I am so loving the Reese/Helena tension.

Angry Dinah trying to come to grips with Canary's death was great as well.

Klara

[bigguye7]

Well color me surprised!I was not expecting much from this episode after seeing the previews but boy was I wrong!The best episode of the season so far.Huntress and Reeses relationship is taken to a new level,Dinah is angry and ready to lash out at anyone.Loved her fight scene!But it was Ashley Scotts performance that gives this episode such weight.The dicotomy between her wanting to be a free spirit like her mother but still having her fathers burning need for justice was wonderfully explored in this story.I think we learned more about huntress in this episode more than any other.Great scene between her and dinah at the end,two lost souls that at first seem so different but in the end are so much alike.My only complaint is the whole barbra/wade love story.This subplot just seems tacked on.I mean should not barbra have said something about the cruel things said about her by wades parents?It just seems that the relationship just skips along without much rythm or reason.Surely the great oracle deserves more than that!To this date the producers have yet to really do much with her character.Sad.Still this episode worked well and hopefully pave the way for future episodes.Extremely well directed by Jim Charleston.My grade A-.

[.:Mattness:.]

Mixed emotions on this episode. It was a good one, don't get me wrong. But it was a bit of a letdown after how much I loved "Sins of the Mother". I dunno, it just didn't seem up to the level of that episode. It also seemed like it was back to the drawingboard: let's pump out random almost-unconnected scenarios and have a big fight scene at the end in which Huntress and Co. prevail. We HAVE to have some storylines that continue on into the other episodes, people! Yes, we had a bit of after-ripples from Dinah concerning Black Canary's "death", and continued cutesy-cute flirting conversations between Huntress and Reese, but other than that it was basically following the same formula as the past episodes. Bah, humbug.

One thing that was nice was Dinah actually getting to really fight. She proved that she can kick some ass. And also more fighting from Barbara! Wheepee! The fight scenes in this episode, for the most part (aside from the bit where Huntress is dangling from chains, and all the baddies run perfectly close enough to her to be at kicking distance), was well-done. It was interesting seeing Dinah actually being the emphasis of the fighting for once. I sense lots of interesting fight scenes to come in the future.

As for Harley Quinn, she's getting a bit more interesting. It's fun to see how close she and Huntress come to finding each other out. And their chemistry, as you guys have mentioned, is also a strangely sinister and delicious twist. *higgles* Can't wait to see more of this in later episodes.

I need to watch the episode again to see if there are any more things that stood out (in both good and bad ways). Overall, a good episode, but a tad of a disappointment for me. *shuts up*

[FranktheRiddler]

Strange that a city the size of New Gotham .. has only one "Crime-Boss" ..

The writers are doing a good job with what they are working with (so far only the Good Doctor) .. but so far the show is a "One-Trick Pony" ..

They need to develop more characters .. maybe I need to come out of retirement ..

[Raven Li]

That'd be nice, Riddler. XD

I didn't really like the plot much, it had too many loose ends. I loved the interaction between the characters though. I'm so impatient to see more of Huntress and Reese and their relationship! And I was really happy for Dinah when she started kickin' some ass there in the animals' hideout. Barbara's relationship with Wade looks really good so far too.

[Sxygrrl Huntress]

Great episode - not my fave, but loved it just the same. Can't say I enjoy watching Huntress and Reese together though - but of course that's just me wanting Huntress all to myself :)

Dinah is getting much better. Love the sparring and the anger. And I think it's great that they show Barbara fighting because it sends a great message to those who can't walk. You can still kick some pretty mean ass without having to get up, out of your chair.

I was also pleased that the network gave this episode a bit more airtime. Previous episodes clocked in at 37 minutes whereas this one was 39. Most programs cut together 42 mins of film. That extra film would do wonders for character development and episode wrapup.

I felt the first few episodes were cut short - 5 minutes really does make a difference.

Well I'm off to the WB's feedback site. And then got my pen and paper ready to let them know what I thought about the episode.

*Anxious* for the official announcement but still won't stop mailing those letters, just in case. And it's the best way to secure a second season... keep fighting everyone :)

[KlaraGirl]

I think it was a really well done ep.

Klara

[AJ2002]

The episode was okay, but writing was pretty bad, if you ask me. First of all, how did Helena know about her mother being Catwoman? That line at the end came out of the blue, and it made no sense at all.

Second, why is Wade still here? That whole thing with Barbara made no sense whatsoever. It was totally irrelevant to the episode.

Third, why was this episode so rushed? The writing just wasn't as good as it was last week. Instead of having these plots all over the place, they should stick to one thing.

After tonight, I am more convinsed that Wade needs to go. The guy is a useless character, and serves absolutely NO purpose to the plot at all.

Primal Scream was definately a let down, from last week. This was more of a filler episode, than anything. Hopefully, next week's episode will be better.

[Psychic Oracle]

It was okay, but not as good as last week, in my opinion.

I agree with you guys, it was too scattered. It's one thing to have an A plot and a B plot, but when both of your plots shoot everywhere...

End of criticsm, I promise

As for the good stuff: I liked that Dinah was dealing with the death of Canary last week. I also liked how Helena had that moment at the end with her, and when she was talking about Catwoman. She's known that her mother was Catwoman... it hasn't been said directly but it's been aluded to. She knows that her mother was "meta" and that her mother was a baddie (as Canary so eloquently stated last week). It was nice to see her relate about her mom.

Dinah's fighting was cool! Good for her!

Babs... I love her but that was just too little in the way of a story. At least we saw her still training Dinah and trying to help her through her pain. That was good.

Hopefully next week will be a little better. I just wish that the WB people would learn not to have Huntress be the focus of every single promo... maybe one or two that focus on Dinah and Barbara...

Again, constructive criticsm.

[capedcrus8r]

I think this episode was the best so far at exploring the characters. I was really hoping Dinah would shine through at the end and rescue them, but she only kicked one guys butt. And those "animals" weren't real good at tying Helena up were they? One swing and she's out of the chains??

Overall though, Ashley Scott shined in this episode. Really showed the depth of her range. And it was good to see Dinah show some rage.

One thing that bugged me though, and this is probly being really picky, but if Detective Reese was really undercover in that restaurant, why did he pull his collar close to his mouth when he was talking to the guy in the van??? Wouldn't that give him away??? Sorry but that really bugged me.

[SlinkySelina]

I rather enjoyed the episode tonight. To me the different storylines were really connected in thinking way.
Huntress/Reese - Figuring out where everything fits for the new trust/flirtation
Barbara/Wade - beginning of understanding their relationship/upstanding.
Dinah - figuring out what's going on with her after watching her mom die and how to deal wit the fact there won't be time to know her.

I especially loved the last scene with Dinah and Helena. Simply because even though they grew up differently, they knew ultimately their mom's loved them because of the sacrifices.. it's just gonna take time for Dinah to understand that (read: character growth). I thought Helena knew about Selena's Catwoman days given that Alfred and Barbara have spoken about them, and Black Canary's statements last week.

I found it interesting that she took the name Cat for her undercover name too. A nice way of honoring her mother's rebelliousness against her father's crusade for justice.

I'll add more later when I can put comprehensive sentences together. :)

[DizzyOracle]

Even though this ep wasn't the most exciting so far, it still dealt a lot with the characters themselves. Dinah and Huntress are sharing similar problems with the deaths of their mothers and Oracle is taking an active part in training Dinah with the batons. (Loved that scene) Hmm, the whole Reese thing feels more comfortable to me than it did in previous eps. Oh, and, how cool is Dinah?!?! Whee, seeing her kick butt with those batons was really somethin'. Wish they'd do something interesting with Wade and Barbara. I did chuckle when Helena asked Barb if the sex was good. Funny! I still think the doctor-patient relationship with Harleen and Helena is incredibly hilarious. I look forward to more Harleen scenes in the future. I wish it was next wednesday already...

[Hunter27]

I like everything about this show up to this point except the Barbara/Wade relationship. If you're interested in my views on this, look under the "Get rid of Wade" topic. Please do, cause I'd like to know other people's thoughts.

[Empress Vader]

Maybe the plot was a little eratic, but I love the ep. My fav. um team is certainly getting closer. No, not the Detective guy and Helena, he's just Huntress' toy. Cute, fun to play with, but Dinah/ Helena are going to be a pair to be reckoned with as this show develops. I'm still gushing over the hug, such a change, not only did she not cringe (like in the pilot), she hugged Dinah. I loved angry Dinah, love Dinah getting to fight in this episode, how hot was Dinah in this episode? Yeah, she's always been cute, but attitude looks good on her every once in awhile.

Barb/Wade? What was that? We cut to the school just so Wade can flirt and then they're in bed? Ugh. That almost pissed me off for the rest of the episode (not because Barbara shouldn't have a guy, but because he's Desperate Dull Wade -- boring), but I recovered. Mr. Desperate is just distracting and pointless.


First of all, how did Helena know about her mother being Catwoman? That line at the end came out of the blue, and it made no sense at all.


I think Catwoman, Batman, and the whole twisted family story proably came to her soon after mom's death from Barb and Alfred, she proably found the mask in a box somewhere when she was going through mom's stuff after she passed away. But it wasn't exactly the time for Helena to give a detailed sketch of her past, she was just relating to the younger one by letting Dinah in on a little about herself. She's kinda been where Dinah is. Heck, with those twisted foster parents of hers (putting her in a closet?), Dinah's childhood was proably worse than Helena's. I was glad they actually let Helena talk about her mother (perfect bonding scene with her partner-in-crimefighting).

[Kedrick]

If I had gone by the promo alone, I probably would not have tuned into last night's episode. Just didn't seem interesting to me and since I am already tired of the "I don't even know your name" shtick with Reese (and this episode was Reese heavy) I didn't expect to enjoy it.

Glad I tuned in!! This is probably the second best episode of the season after "Sins of the Mother". Saying this I think it is important to mention how this episode felt like several random pieces edited together. While I enjoyed each piece, it made for a somewhat disjointed total package.

I especially enjoyed the development of Dinah's character and her function in the show. Rachel was quite convincing in her fight scenes and I am looking forward to her further development as a "Robin" to Huntress' "Batman".

The subplot with Barbara and Wade made for some interesting moments. While this isn't of any great interest to me, it is nice to help round out the characters and give them a fuller existance on the screen. I would prefer to see Wade and Babs outside of the school though. I just don't find her day job as a school teacher believable considering her little pager could flash "Delphi Alert" at any moment. How would she explain her frequent abscences to her employers? And with all the equipment she has in her apartment, why does she even need to work? :)

The Reese/Helena relationship is finally starting to move past the annoying stage I mentioned earlier. I really appreciate that the story has a linear quality with this episode focusing on the ring Reese was given last episode and Dinah dealing with Black Canary's death. The sexual innuendo between Reese and Helena was pretty cool at the beginning and I liked their interaction throughout the rest of the episode. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come in how the writers handle these two.

Looking forward to next episode,

Clint

[davetron5000]

It should've ended with Reese going against Huntress and busting the crew legit (including Huntress), only letting her escape at the very end. This would've put some conflict (REAL conflict) between Reese and Huntress, and prevent Huntress from finding out who "the boss" is. As far as Dinah goes, they should've had a sideplot of her stopping some petty crime and beating the perp. up too much, just to further that plotline.

The way this one panned out, Dinah didn't do much but kick that one guy's ass. Plus, the whole thing where Huntress convinces Reese not to kill the guy was just way out of character for both of them. It should've been the other way around.

That said, this was much better than many of the previous episodes, but the writers really need to not feel the need to wrap everything up by the end of the episode. Put some big things handing out there for future episodes....

[Venus E]

I thought last weeks eppy was good, but I was wrong. Last nights episode was the BEST episode I seen so far for the first season. The Writers finally got it right. The development between the characters, the Huntress/Reese interaction, Dinah kicking serious butt, it was all good.

Someone made a remark on the board before that the show should stay away from comic book themes and the whole metahuman "mutant X" theme and to stop bringing in more DC characters (not now but focus on the main characters first. I think that person was on to something. Last nights episode proves you can have a good show just writing and developing the main character already there.

[Empress Vader]

I think my biggest issue with the Wade thing is there are sudden HUGE leaps without reason. Like with his parents, we didn't get to see that, we heard about it secondhand. Seeing how Barbara reacted, seeing how Wade handled it, might have given us something, something beyond this flimsy association. I don't see it, I can't feel it. Can't feel good about it, can't feel bad about it, just not interested.

[Cassandra Cain]

Yep, I'm not interested in Wade-Babs at all.

I thought the ep was good, but not as good as last week I don't think. I wish Sarah Brown (Wolf) had had a bigger role.

[Dark Knight]

Whoa! Talk about jumps in the plot line...:fume:

About last night...
So-o fine! Oracle gets a little - Teach-me-Tonight!...and the Huntress gets hung out to dry...along with her man...from a chain no less. Where is the love?
How the heck did Huntress get herself un-manacled so fast? (If-fy to say the least.) I wondered how she was going to get out of THAT fix!! Ahh-h-h; but the narrowing eye tells all...

To Davetron5000: ...but the writers really need to not feel the need to wrap everything up by the end of the episode. Put some big things handing out there for future episodes....

The relationship between Dr. Quinzel/Harely Quinn; and the Huntress is the one constant hanging out there...I for one hope that they donot discover one another untill an all-important critical moment. The mystique and the all-too-kindred revelations shared between Doctor and Patient is a successful tool to exploit their similar, yet squirrely psyches.

New Gotham is a place full of much attended to squirrely egos.

D.K. :D

[AJ2002]

The promos for last night's episode did suck. The WB didn't do a good job of promoting the episode at all, which kinda explains the ratings drop.

[photoego]

Last nights episode was very very good! I agree that the WB did not do it's job right in promotinng the episode...what the hell were they thinking?

Did not like the fact that Barbara got laid so quick...but I guess it's ok..the Waddde thing bothers me....unless it is setting up a future conflict for when Grayson shows up.

I hope that the following episodes follow suit in being as good or better.

Did anyone notice that Helena only had one "whoosh" sound scene when she dissappeared on Reese or that Barbara was not a continuous fashion statement hanging out at home in the tower? Maybe they did read the board..lol

[Heather]

I loved this episode. It had a lot of Helena and Reese interaction. Which of course I love. When Barbara said "let's take it slow." Then the next scene Wade and here were in bed. I was like oh my gosh. I am happy for her though. I also like the part where Helena was like, " You had sex with Wade." Really loud and then Barbara said, "shh don't say sex near alfred." Great episode I loved it!!!!:D

Oh yeah and I forgot about Dinah! She kicked some major ass this week, she was awesome. I liked when she was practicing with Barbara. Very cool. I also like the looks that Barbara and Helena kept giving each other when Dinah kind of screamed.

[Neptune's Rose]

I loved the epsode as a whole. And the ending was my fav. part. Helena in the clocktower with her mother's mask and her(own) cat mask. It made me wonder if Helena would ever go out one night as Catwoman maybe for a Halloween episode or something ;)

[Neuf]

It's really too bad that the ratings for this episode weren't better because I thought this was a great episode.

I like that we got a glimpse of Helena's wild side. I hope they continue to have her tempted by her "dark side" from time to time.

I also liked the riff between Helena and Reese and found myself talking to the TV telling him "F*** you!" when he gave her back the ring. Sometimes I like that he has trust issues but other times I just want to see him, at least once, just welcome her presence and not treat her like an annoyance. I think he's already forgotten that she's saved his life more than once. Must be all that coffee. ;)

Who else wanted to see Helena kick Wolf's ass? At the end, I was waiting for them to have at least some sort of battle but was very disappointed when it didn't happen.

I still think there are way too many commercials shown but they FINALLY shortened the intro! I'd much rather them do away with it all together but I'll take what I can get for now.

All in all - this show rocks!

Deb "Neuf"

[Neptune's Rose]

Wolf was so jealous and annoying during the ep. I sure was waiting for Helena to give her a swift kick up her a**!!:fight:

[DizzyOracle]

Hmm, Barbard slept with Wade. I did NOT see that coming... My fav. part of the ep was when Helena and Barbara were talking about how the sex was.

[Lance]

I didn't see it coming, either, and the ten-second bedroom scene probably was an afterthought --- possibly because the passing reference to the earlier 'meeting' with Wade's parents was a kiss-off and short-changed us all. The conversation between Barbara and Helena was good (Dina's always good, anyway) but didn't even need the bedroom scene to set it up, since Barbara summed it up. That was my favorite part, too. We need more Barbara!

[jinnyb]

I don't mind wade but if there going to use him could thay add more dimension to him.
They needed to have less helena reese in the begining and use the extra minute to conjoin the show more.
Barabara keep telling Dinah her grief would effect her fighting, and she was right to worry. But then when Dinah fought everything was fine , they should have played on her grief and followed through having it but her in a little danger, or just have all her rage come out, on at least some inatamate objects. then gone to the scene at the end. it would have tied thing together alittle more. They also need to get some running arches going from week to week beside helena and reese.
But there getting closer and Ithink when the writers start writing what the know is good and not what they think the viewers want , it will really work. they have all the elements there they just need to put them together. funny thing is while the plots are getting better the first few episodes were smoother. think about it, the bad guy was boring, but were still quoting from "slick", because the dialouge between these women was so delightful
I think If I didn't like the show so much I would even notice these things
also the alfred scence was nice it gave us info as well as character.

[Senna Wales]

I thought it was alright.

[Ivy]

A good episode that had one glaring fault [as evidenced by the drop in ratings.]: It was yet another of the Huntress/Reese themed hours. Which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't kinda obvious that they can't sustain an entire hour without it getting a little tedious.

That being said, it wasn't what I expected. It was a good episode despite the fact that I prefer both Dinah and Barbara to Helena. I was expecting full on "where the heck did that come from" bad girl antics. Instead I got Helena undercover and lots of allusions to a "partnership" with Reese.

Dinah wasn't expected to just be over her mother's death, and despite her protests to the contrary ... wasn't. She wasn't broken up so much over Canary's death, but by the knowledge that at any moment Helena or Barbara could be. Plus she got to train with Oracle. Funness for me.

It's a shame the writers think it's okay to just tell us something has happened, or to leap from one frame to another and expect us to keep up and not question it. Why do we see 1/8 of Barbara's relationship with Wade, yet are forced to sit through endless flirt sessions with H/R?

Meanwhile, back in the Criminal Underworld... Twists and turns to be had for all. However it was just too much Huntress after a break from her exclusive hold on the A-story. Nothing against her, but like another WB show that seems to think their strength lies elsewhere *coughCharmedcough*... they're wrong. :P Split up the episode a bit more evenly, have all the girls come together more often. Have Huntress driven stories once in awhile; it'll spice things up if they're rare.

[Venus E]

Barbara slept with Wade, huh? I did not know that paraplegics can have sex.(normal sex, anyway).

And I wonder is she really paralyze? Well in the DC world she is, but for the TV show the writers are taken certain liberties. I understand they will make her get out of her chair some how to fight Lady Shiva for a rematch to the death.

Also to note that Barbara/Batgirl did not beat Lady Shiva, but it was the second Batgirl, Cassandra Cain who did.

Like I said, "The Writers are taken liberties."

[Frostbite]

Now how does Lady Shiva know which Batgirl is which? Hmm? Barbara just assumes that because Shiva's looking for Batgirl, she's looking for her.

[DrShimmel]

It was ok....Defenitly my least favorite episode of the series. I like the scene with Huntress holding Catwoman's mask at the end.

[Dark Knight]

:angel:Venus E wrote:
Barbara slept with Wade, huh? I did not know that paraplegics can have sex.(normal sex, anyway). And I wonder is she really paralyze(d)?
------------------------
Believe you me...in the real world at least....it is possible and it is accomodatable to engage physically and to experience some sensation. (LOL) ...more than you wanted to know...

In comics the writers DO take huge liberties for the sake of the story and the plot. Barbara has obviously lost the use and support of her legs...but who's to say they can't be "set aside" and Wade obviously has NO PROBLEM getting around the bedroom... or its various intricacies.

Barbara/Oracle: You go girl!

As I've pointed out New Gotham is a: "...strange and squirrely place!"

D.K. :fume:

[Venus E]

That is more than I needed to know.

[Frostbite]

Originally posted by Dark Knight

Barbara has obviously lost the use and support of her legs...but who's to say they can't be "set aside" and Wade obviously has NO PROBLEM getting around the bedroom... or its various intricacies.


I read that the legs are bent backwards behind the person.

[EKATZ]

We may still read the official description and see the trailer over at http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Episode/0,8201,||1154,00.html.

[Frostbite]

Stop spamming.