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Jesse321
11-30-2003, 11:49 AM
A VERY interesting artical in the NY Times !!

The Unemployment Myth
By AUSTAN GOOLSBEE

Published: November 30, 2003

CHICAGO

The government's announcement on Tuesday that the economy grew even faster than expected makes the current "jobless recovery" even more puzzling. To give some perspective, unemployment normally falls significantly in such economic boom times. The last time growth was this good, in 1983, unemployment fell 2.5 percentage points and another full percentage point the next year. That's what happens in a typical recovery. So why not this time? Because we have more to recover from than we've been told.

The reality is that we didn't have a mild recession. Jobs-wise, we had a deep one.

The government reported that annual unemployment during this recession peaked at only around 6 percent, compared with more than 7 percent in 1992 and more than 9 percent in 1982. But the unemployment rate has been low only because government programs, especially Social Security disability, have effectively been buying people off the unemployment rolls and reclassifying them as "not in the labor force."

In other words, the government has cooked the books. It has been a more subtle manipulation than the one during the Reagan administration, when people serving in the military were reclassified from "not in the labor force" to "employed" in order to reduce the unemployment rate. Nonetheless, the impact has been the same.

Research by the economists David Autor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Mark Duggan at the University of Maryland shows that once Congress began loosening the standards to qualify for disability payments in the late 1980's and early 1990's, people who would normally be counted as unemployed started moving in record numbers into the disability system — a kind of invisible unemployment. Almost all of the increase came from hard-to-verify disabilities like back pain and mental disorders. As the rolls swelled, the meaning of the official unemployment rate changed as millions of people were left out.

By the end of the 1990's boom, this invisible unemployment seemed to have stabilized. With the arrival of this recession, it has exploded. From 1999 to 2003, applications for disability payments rose more than 50 percent and the number of people enrolled has grown by one million. Therefore, if you correctly accounted for all of these people, the peak unemployment rate in this recession would have probably pushed 8 percent.

The point is not whether every person on disability deserves payments. The point is that in previous recessions these people would have been called unemployed. They would have filed for unemployment insurance. They would have shown up in the statistics. They would have helped create a more accurate picture of national unemployment, a crucial barometer we use to measure the performance of the economy, the likelihood of inflation and the state of the job market.

Unfortunately, underreporting unemployment has served the interests of both political parties. Democrats were able to claim unemployment fell in the 1990's to the lowest level in 40 years, happy to ignore the invisible unemployed. Republicans have eagerly embraced the view that the recession of 2001 was the mildest on record.

The situation has grown so dire, though, that we can't even tell whether the job market is recovering. The time has come to correct the official unemployment statistics to account for those left out. The government agencies that can give us a more detailed and accurate picture of the nation's employment situation — the Census, the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Bureau of Economic Analysis — need additional funds and resources from Congress to do their jobs.

Otherwise, announcements about a rebounding economy will continue to show only half the picture. Take the revised numbers released by the Commerce Department on Tuesday. They showed that output in the third quarter grew at a rate of 8.2 percent, an extraordinary pace, and productivity grew even faster. Almost no one noted, though, that Social Security also announced the latest data on disability applications. Almost 200,000 people applied in October — up 20 percent from the previous month — tying the highest level ever. Despite the blistering growth of the economy, the invisible unemployment problem continues.

We didn't have a mild recession and a jobless recovery. We covered up a deep recession and will need a sizable bit of recovery just to get us back to the point the unemployment rate suggested we already were. As the Red Queen said to Alice in "Through the Looking Glass": "Here, you see, it takes all the running you can do to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"


Austan Goolsbee is professor of economics at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business.

jaguarin
11-30-2003, 01:01 PM
Interesting article and very ture. It happens so much and not only in USA, here is like an sport.

srfrgrl
12-01-2003, 12:12 PM
The government also counts people who work part-time as well! As an accounting clerk I am far from naive about cooking the books, but this is really stretching it boys! Thanks for the article Jesse!

SevenSlave
12-01-2003, 05:36 PM
I don't like to talk about my personal life here on the board.

I collect a disability pension. It's not easy to get on disability.

In order to get on, I had to produce employment records, tax returns, reams of medical records, personal references, and prescription records (The government prefers to see prescription records; in their mind, if it can't be treated with a pill, it's NOT a disabling condition).

What's more, I had to go to court in order to keep my disability. The government's own expert certified me as being "unable to function in a typical workplace environment" (Their words).

It's no small thing to go on disability; I had to jump through some bureaucratic hoops. I seriously doubt that the number of people claiming disability are as great as the article claims.

Jesse321
12-01-2003, 06:45 PM
Seven, disabilty fraud is RAMPANT in our system, I've done accounting for a couple of doctors and you would be surprised at how easy some conditions are to fake. I don't presume to know your personal situation, but I have seen several doctors down here lose thier licenses because of forged or inflated medical conditions and we have all seen those expose's on people that are perfectly healthy that are collecting from insurance companies and disabilities.

Though I do agree that the system is getting tougher, there are still alot of loop holes that people get through, the real problem there is that the people (like you) who need it are getting slammed to ... Thanks for sharing by the way.

SevenSlave
12-01-2003, 06:54 PM
^ I agree ... I wouldn't be at all surprised at the amount of fraud in the system.

My point was that collecting disability is no simple matter. It's not as easy as the article makes it appear.

Jesse321
12-01-2003, 09:01 PM
I think it depends on the condition.

Red Mask
12-01-2003, 11:01 PM
Thanks for puncturing that mirage. But I wonder how much this will show in the Holiday Shopping season?

jaguarin
12-01-2003, 11:07 PM
Unfair things against disable people and normal people happens every day, is disgusting.... :fume:

Jesse321
12-01-2003, 11:17 PM
Red, I don't think this will show in the holiday season per say, alot of economists have already called the start of the season only bland or fair, though they seem to think it will improve closer to Christmas.

When it will show is in the Consumer Debt Index in late January and early February when the bills for this season start to become due and people can't pay them, we are after all a nation of debt. The average American has between 7,000 to 12,000 dollars of credit card debt on any given day, so add to that holiday spending and you have a recipe for more bankruptcies.

What alot of consumers don't know is that in June the laws governing bankruptcy changed making it DRASTICALLY harder to file chapter 7 bankruptcy. Most are now forced into chapter 13 which forces reorganization and all debts to be paid back even if only in part, but either way your credit rating is ruined for years, which in turn brings up insurance and mortgage rates and starts the cycle all over again.

srfrgrl
12-02-2003, 07:04 AM
Gee I wonder who pushed Congress to allow this law to be passed????? Credit Card Companies????

Not that I believe you should be able to spend beyond your earnings and purchase whatever, but when you can charge up to 21.5% interest on purchases I have a problem with that! I also have a problem with these companies putting credit card applications in high schools, they are trying to get kids into debt and keep them in debt, they should be removed from high schools immediately and the kids should be required to take a course on money and banking, so that way they don't end up with a pile of debt!

Jesse321
12-02-2003, 07:17 AM
Banking, Finance and Pharmacuticals make up the largest lobby force in the US Goverment srfrgl ... is that really a surprise to anyone ??

srfrgrl
12-02-2003, 11:41 AM
Not at all! Its just a damn shame that the credit card industry is targeting kids. They are just as bad as the tobacco industry in that they are trying to put young people into debt when they are just starting out. If they can't advertise tobacco, they shouldn't be allowed to advertise credit cards!

DOCMIDNITE
12-02-2003, 12:34 PM
Srfrgrl
You are right. The credit card companies are evil. They don't care as long as they get their %. Years back my younger sister worked for Macy's at 16. She had no car, no house, just her 15 hour or so a week job. They gave her a Macy's credit card with a supposed $200.00 limit. Well my loving sis proceeded to charge close to $2,000.00 They came after my father and when he questioned why they would allow a 16 year old to go nearly $1,600.00 over the credit limit they stated it was a glitch and he was still responsible. NICE huh?

And don't even start me on Fraud reports and Identity theft!!!
I could curl your hair with stories of Police reports i took for these.

srfrgrl
12-03-2003, 11:40 AM
Doc
Mom had her wallet stolen in my grocery store that I work in partime, they have security cameras, that supposedly didn't work that day, and the individual charged over $800.00 in leather jackets not even 45 minutes later. Mom called the credit card company right then and there, and they still tried to make her pay the charges. Even though she filed a police report and everything. Long story short, she threaten them with a law suit and they backed off and took the charges off her statement!

DOCMIDNITE
12-03-2003, 04:54 PM
Sounds all too familiar there Surfette! We had a woman get her purse taken and didn't realize it was gone for 2 hours. They charged over $3,000 in mechandise from various stores up Route 10 in East Hanover.

srfrgrl
12-04-2003, 11:57 AM
Whats even a bigger shame is that in taking away the Chapter 7, people will have to file for bankruptcy that makes the have to pay back some if not all of the debt over time and have their credit rating go down the old toliet. Not that it wouldn't be there already but I think that congress should do something about the interest rates on these cards. Bank accounts are only making around 2.5 for a saving and 5.0 for a CD, so how can they charge up to 23.0 in interest??? Loan sharks are more forgiving than that with interest rates!