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Eternal Paladin
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I've been pretty out of the loop with... well, everything... for the last few months due to health issues, and this thread is actually how I heard about the DC reboot.

I have very mixed feelings about this. I liked Cassandra Cain and followed those Batgirl books. I liked the relationship she had with the rest of the Batclan.

But more than that, I grew up watching B:TAS and playing superheroes with my brother. I was Batgirl and he was Spiderman and we pretended we would fly across rooftops fighting bad guys (cuz, you know, bad guys always hang out on rooftops). Then I grew up a little, got hurt, messed up my feet and the BoP TV show came out only a couple of months after I got out of the wheelchair. I felt like I had a friend who understood how hard it was just to get around and had lost what I had lost. I felt like I had a friend who wanted to help people... not BECAUSE of tragedy, but IN SPITE OF tragedy. My favorite quote of the whole series was where Barbara tells Black Canary that getting hurt "doesn't change what I do, just how I do it."

I feel like I'm losing that friend.

On the other hand, if I could just get healed like she did, and had been a superhero that could personally pummel guys, of course I'd want to get back to it! I still have dreams where I could do the stuff I could do before, and I'm sure I'd jump right back in. I highly doubt I'd let the existential feeling of "Well, I'm helping more people like this" get in the way of the personal satisfaction.

But will I follow the new Batgirl books as religiously as I did Birds of Prey? Eh, probably not. It's harder to care. Birds of Prey was about a group of friends who were also heroes, and I think I'll miss that dynamic just as much as I missed the whole transcendence in spite of tragedy.
Old 08-13-2011, 08:35 PM Reply With Quote Eternal Paladin is offline  
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LordSerpentor
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I think right now there is just a lot of confusion surrounding the re-boot re-launch or whatever they want to call it. Gail Simone in an interview said she'd find it harder to have Barbara go back to being Batgirl if all the Oracle stuff was still in continuity indicating that her continuity as Oracle is either A) had some cuts to it so that she wasn't as big a player in the universe as she had been. Or B) Is gone completely.

Now on the other hand we have Co Publishers Dan Didio and Jim Lee saying all the Oracle stuff is in continuity she just had physical therapy and is now able to walk again. Gail has also said she rather they not say anything and let it just be told in story but the problem with that is with such a major change people are going to want to know before they buy the book.

My biggest problem with the Batgirl book that starts in September is that Barbara went from a character who was doing everything she could in spite of the tragedy that fell upon her to well lets be honest little miss perfect from the way Gail is promoting things. Barbara is 23 just graduated from college with an advanced degree more advanced than anyone her age her dad is the police Commissioner she has a cool boyfriend (I have a feeling it's good old Dick Grayson) and hey she went through physical therapy and can walk again. I'm not saying that every superhero in existence has to have some kind of tragedy in their lives to make them interesting, but this seems like a case of someone who has everything going for them and then goes and does something stupid.

How am I suppose to find a character interesting when she has everything going for her in the world and then after just being able to walk again takes to the rooftops to fight crime, instead of using her extraordinary intellect to be a more indirect crime fighter.

Birds of Prey on the other hand, well it seems in recent history anytime anyone but Gail Simone writes the book it's pretty much doomed so I don't have a lot of faith in that book. It just got a re-launch about a year and a big ago. Last arc wasn't written by Gail and it was crap. Huntress won't be in the book until April or May when her mini series ends but by then it could be to late.

As for Stephanie and Cassandra all we get is there are plans for the characters. But Dan has said that about Cassandra for a long time now. She was suppose to be in Birds of Prey then editorial changed their minds and she had to be removed. He says he's a big spoiler fan but he won't recognize her time as Robin and handed down the editorial mandate that she be killed in War Games. Gail Simmone said she had a new book approved at SDCC that will un-bench some fan favorite characters, perhaps Steph and Cass are in there.

One thing for sure September will be a huge month for DC with so many retailers offering all kinds of crazy discounts and deals on the new 52 the books will sell a lot. What will happen come say January when all the hype has died and were 4 issues into the same writters and artists who right now are not delivering the best possible stories that can be told(at least that's what DC would like you to think) I don't know we'll see. I personally don't see this changing much for DC in the long run.
Old 08-19-2011, 01:45 PM Reply With Quote LordSerpentor is offline  
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Oracle/Batgirl
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I have mixed feelings about the DC reboot. On one hand. I'm glad to see DC decided to make Barbara Gordon Batgirl again,but in doing that. It leaves Stephanie Brown out in the cold. On the other hand. They are messing up the Birds of Prey title.
Old 08-30-2011, 04:22 PM Reply With Quote Oracle/Batgirl is offline  
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LordSerpentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracle/Batgirl
I have mixed feelings about the DC reboot. On one hand. I'm glad to see DC decided to make Barbara Gordon Batgirl again,but in doing that. It leaves Stephanie Brown out in the cold. On the other hand. They are messing up the Birds of Prey title.


As of right now both Stephanie and Cassandra are MIA in the DCNU, Dan Didio (Co Publisher) and Grant Morrision (who has a big Batman comic coming sometime in 2012) have said there are plans for both of them. But in Cassandra's case we've been hearing that for years now and nothing has really come out of it.

Birds of Prey I'm really scared for it right now, its going to be a solid 7 months after issue 1 before Huntress will be in the book (her mini has to finish first apparently and it only starts in October) We've heard Barbara will have a role in the book but what it is and when is still a mystery. I don't know if Black Canary Poison Ivy and some characters no one cares about can hold the book for that long. The book just wasn't the same when they took Black Canary out and it ended up being cancelled.

As for Barbara being Batgirl again, I don't like it on the principle the reasoning make no sense, it's okay to have 4 Robin's but Batgirl has to be Barbara.....that makes no sense to me at all. I could have understood a decision to bring Cassandra back if Steph's sales were not so great but to just default back to Barbara because they think she's the most iconic made no sense. Also IF it just had to be done I would have preferred it to be played out over time not just hey here's issue 1 and Barbara can walk again and everything is great.

The book isn't out until next week but one site got an advanced copy and did a spoiler free review of it. They said that the book feels like the best that could be done under the circumstances and not the best Batgirl book that could be written. I hope for the fans who wanted this book that this changes or else it could be doomed. Personally I hope it continues to read like that and sales tank and they will have her as Oracle again.


The whole problem with the re-launch really comes down to this, in 4-6 months time will all these new readers who came on board because of all the media attention actually stay? Every time a comic gets media attention sales increase and then just go right back to where they were to begin with. So if were back to the same sales levels we had in July come March then was this really worth it? To annoy so many long term fans for a short burst of new readers? DC could find themselves in a real mess if that happens.

As of right now the general Consensus on JLA 1 is great art but an underwhelming start to the new DC Universe. And with all the media attention and hype they are putting into this saying these are the best books ever to come out of DC that is not what I wanted to hear.


For anyone interested here is the Trailer for Birds of prey #1 (if this doesn't make you want to buy the book.......I don't blame you)

http://robot6.comicbookresources.co...irds-of-prey-1/

Last edited by LordSerpentor : 09-02-2011 at 04:15 PM.
Old 08-31-2011, 11:20 PM Reply With Quote LordSerpentor is offline  
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DOCMIDNITE
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If I recall correctly Marvel did this with the Heroes Reborn Universe and rescripted it midway due to....It Stunk.
Old 09-03-2011, 07:27 PM Reply With Quote DOCMIDNITE is offline  
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LordSerpentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOCMIDNITE
If I recall correctly Marvel did this with the Heroes Reborn Universe and rescripted it midway due to....It Stunk.


That is basically exactly what this is, it was sort of explained in Flashpoint issue 5

**Spoilers**


Barry Allen (Flash) screws up the time line by stopping reverse flash from killing his mother he then runs back in time to stop himself from stopping his mother from getting killed. He then is told by someone that the universe is fractured into 3 peices (DC Universe proper, Wildstom, and Vertigo) and that he can fix it so he runs to the new DCU which has all 3 universe melted into one.

**Spoilers**



Anyway so far JLA issue 1 is going to it's 3 print despite selling 200k in its first run, Action comics and Batgirl are both going back for a second print. Time will tell if these sales stick or not. Sadly unlike Heroes Reborn the DCnU is Dan Didio's baby he's wanted to do this since Infinite Crisis but was not allowed to. But now that he has more control he went ahead and did it, so odds are unless the sales really start to tank this will last a while.
Old 09-03-2011, 08:54 PM Reply With Quote LordSerpentor is offline  
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Oracle/Batgirl
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I'm disgusted with the first issue of Batgirl. I waited for a long time to Barbara to walk again and the first issue sucked. She panics when the guy pulls a gun on her and she freezes up. Letting the guy get away and kill another person. If this is how Barbara is going to be. Shoot her and put her back in the wheelchair. I don't know what Gail's problem is. When she did Birds of Prey. She showed Barbara as a strong character and capable of handling herself. She get Barbara as Batgirl and totally drops the ball and makes Barbara weak and ineffective crimefighter.

Last edited by Oracle/Batgirl : 10-01-2011 at 01:27 AM.
Old 09-30-2011, 03:27 PM Reply With Quote Oracle/Batgirl is offline  
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LordSerpentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracle/Batgirl
I'm disgusted with the first issue of Batgirl. I waited for a long time to Barbara to walk again and the first issue sucked. She panics when the guy pulls a gun on her and she freezes up. Letting the guy get away and kill another person. If this is how Barbara is going to be. Shoot her and put her back in the wheelchair. I don't know what Gail's problem is. When she did Birds of Prey. She showed Barbara as a strong character and capable of handling herself. She get Barbara as Batgirl and totally drops the ball and makes Barbara weak and ineffective crimefighter.


I skimmed the issue haven't read it but it's basically Gail Simone making the best out of a bad situation. Don't forget Barbara hasn't been paralyzed that long in the new DCnU it's been about 3 years and we don't know for sure that she was ever Oracle, so in that sense if this is Barbara's first time back into this world of crime fighting then it's pretty much what you'd expect.

Birds of Prey was alright nothing to write home about though, Barbara appeared briefly she and Dinah seemingly are not getting along right now.

First issue of Huntress Mini on the other hand was very good.
Old 10-09-2011, 09:29 PM Reply With Quote LordSerpentor is offline  
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